Weinberg, Mieczysław (1919 - 96)

[DublinJimbo]

… I also dug out my Chandos recording of the Cello Concerto, which is a gorgeous piece of music

Gorgeous indeed. The Violin Concerto is wonderful also.

[edashtav]

I want to rein in this paean of praise. I, too, have enjoyed many of Weinberg's scores mentioned in this thread but I don't class him as a master, just a good composer deserving attention from time to time. In Soviet terms, I'd rank him alongside Gavriil Popov and Dmitri Kabalevsky, composers who knew how to score effectively but who lacked the intellectual control and originality of Dmitri Shostakovitch.

[ahinton]

I want to rein in this paean of praise. I, too, have enjoyed many of Weinberg's scores mentioned in this thread but I don't class him as a master, just a good composer deserving attention from time to time. In Soviet terms, I'd rank him alongside Gavriil Popov and Dmitri Kabalevsky, composers who knew how to score effectively but who lacked the intellectual control and originality of Dmitri Shostakovitch.

I think that this is a slightly unfair assessment; OK, neither Weinberg nor the other composers whom you mention is a match for Shostakovich on any of those grounds but Weinberg is arguably by far the most interesting of them and one who attracted Shostakovich's interest.

[Alison]

I agree with your rankings Tavers and yet on any given winter evening I might choose to listen to a Weinberg piece over a LvB one.

[edashtav]

I think that this is a slightly unfair assessment; OK, neither Weinberg nor the other composers whom you mention is a match for Shostakovich on any of those grounds but Weinberg is arguably by far the most interesting of them and one who attracted Shostakovich's interest.

I think that's a little bit unfair to Popov, Mr Hinton. DSCH was a notable supporter of Popov.

Here are some comments re the difficult birth of Popov's 1st Symphony:

"The piece was premiered on March 22, 1935, under Fritz Stiedry's baton. Dmitri Shostakovich, Ivan Sollertinsky, Boris Arapov, and Yuri Kochurov were in attendance. The piece recieved a lukewarm reception from the reception at its premiere.p

G. N. Popov's original music was at odds with the demands of the Communist Party. The next day, the piece was banned, with Popov understandably very upset. In fact, G. N. Popov's Symphony No. 1 was the first orchestral piece to be banned by the Soviet regime. Admirers of the piece, including Shostakovich, Meyerhold, Asafiev, and Golovanov wrote letters to protest [against] this decision. The ban was successfully appealed, however, the piece was never performed again in Popov's lifetime."

I suspect Popov's post WWII fight with alcoholism caused DSCH's support to wane.

[ahinton]

I think that's a little bit unfair to Popov, Mr Hinton. DSCH was a notable supporter of Popov.

Here are some comments re the difficult birth of Popov's 1st Symphony:

"The piece was premiered on March 22, 1935, under Fritz Stiedry's baton. Dmitri Shostakovich, Ivan Sollertinsky, Boris Arapov, and Yuri Kochurov were in attendance. The piece recieved a lukewarm reception from the reception at its premiere.p

G. N. Popov's original music was at odds with the demands of the Communist Party. The next day, the piece was banned, with Popov understandably very upset. In fact, G. N. Popov's Symphony No. 1 was the first orchestral piece to be banned by the Soviet regime. Admirers of the piece, including Shostakovich, Meyerhold, Asafiev, and Golovanov wrote letters to protest [against] this decision. The ban was successfully appealed, however, the piece was never performed again in Popov's lifetime."

I suspect Popov's post WWII fight with alcoholism caused DSCH's support to wane.

Fair comment re Popov and not wishing to undermine his work, but Weinberg's case seems to me remarkable not least because of the consistency within the sheer amount of music that he wrote. Shostakovich remains Shostakovich, of course; which of his contemporaries/compatriots could ever have composed a work of the order of his Fourth Symphony (whose première was also to be conducted by Fritz Stiedry) before attaining the age of 30?...

[Edgy 2]

I really like the new album with Mirga and I also dug out my Chandos recording of the Cello Concerto, which is a gorgeous piece of music

Gorgeous indeed. The Violin Concerto is wonderful also.

Yes indeed

[Edgy 2]

Fair comment re Popov and not wishing to undermine his work, but Weinberg's case seems to me remarkable not least because of the consistency within the sheer amount of music that he wrote. Shostakovich remains Shostakovich, of course; which of his contemporaries/compatriots could ever have composed a work of the order of his Fourth Symphony (whose première was also to be conducted by Fritz Stiedry) before attaining the age of 30?...

[Edgy 2]

I agree with your rankings Tavers and yet on any given winter evening I might choose to listen to a Weinberg piece over a LvB one.

That’s something coming from you Alison
For me it would be quite normal

[richardfinegold]

I want to rein in this paean of praise. I, too, have enjoyed many of Weinberg's scores mentioned in this thread but I don't class him as a master, just a good composer deserving attention from time to time. In Soviet terms, I'd rank him alongside Gavriil Popov and Dmitri Kabalevsky, composers who knew how to score effectively but who lacked the intellectual control and originality of Dmitri Shostakovitch.

I am not familiar with Popov, but have a fair acquaintance with Kabelevsky. Nothing that I have heard by him seems to plumb the emotional depths of the best of the Weinberg, but perhaps that wasn’t ever Kabalevsky’s Musical Mission.
Weinberg seems to have written a fair amount of chaff to go with the wheat, so part of the challange of exploring his oeuvre is knowing where to look, which makes a thread such as this valuable. Why the dross? I suspect some of it was cranked out to fulfill his obligations to the authorities for paens to Socialist Realism. Some of it may have been natural prolixity on his part, in which case he has some good company in the likes of Vivaldi, Schubert, Max Bruch, and a few others . It is good to see non Russian Orchestras and Musicians explore his output. I suspect that a few generations may have to pass before we have a fuller appreciation of him

[Stanfordian]

I am not familiar with Popov, but have a fair acquaintance with Kabelevsky. Nothing that I have heard by him seems to plumb the emotional depths of the best of the Weinberg, but perhaps that wasn’t ever Kabalevsky’s Musical Mission.
Weinberg seems to have written a fair amount of chaff to go with the wheat, so part of the challange of exploring his oeuvre is knowing where to look, which makes a thread such as this valuable. Why the dross? I suspect some of it was cranked out to fulfill his obligations to the authorities for paens to Socialist Realism. Some of it may have been natural prolixity on his part, in which case he has some good company in the likes of Vivaldi, Schubert, Max Bruch, and a few others . It is good to see non Russian Orchestras and Musicians explore his output. I suspect that a few generations may have to pass before we have a fuller appreciation of him

Hello richardfinegold,

You make some interesting comments. I don't find prolixity in the music of Vivaldi and Schubert, and only occasionally in Bruch.

I've not found what could be described as 'dross' in Weinberg's music.

For what it's worth I'd place Weinberg above Kabalevsky but quite a bit below the master Shostakovich.

[Barbirollians]

I don't really see the need to compare. I have admired all of his music that I have heard such as the violin and cello concertos - the Kaddish Symphony on the other hand I found very moving.

[edashtav]

I am not familiar with Popov, but have a fair acquaintance with Kabelevsky. Nothing that I have heard by him seems to plumb the emotional depths of the best of the Weinberg, but perhaps that wasn’t ever Kabalevsky’s Musical Mission.
Weinberg seems to have written a fair amount of chaff to go with the wheat, so part of the challange of exploring his oeuvre is knowing where to look, which makes a thread such as this valuable. Why the dross? I suspect some of it was cranked out to fulfill his obligations to the authorities for paens to Socialist Realism. Some of it may have been natural prolixity on his part, in which case he has some good company in the likes of Vivaldi, Schubert, Max Bruch, and a few others . It is good to see non Russian Orchestras and Musicians explore his output. I suspect that a few generations may have to pass before we have a fuller appreciation of him

I'm very much in agreement, richardfinegold, as your name almost suggests it's necessary to separate fine gold from dross if we're going to programme effectively, ensuring they contain a sufficiency of works by the greatest masters of the present and past.

[richardfinegold]

I don't really see the need to compare. I have admired all of his music that I have heard such as the violin and cello concertos - the Kaddish Symphony on the other hand I found very moving.

Some of the "patriotic" symphonies that I have heard from M.W. pen I am content not to resample, and remind me of DSCH Symphonies 2,3 and 12, or Prokofiev "Song Of The Forest" or Odes to Stalin

[ahinton]

Some of the "patriotic" symphonies that I have heard from M.W. pen I am content not to resample, and remind me of DSCH Symphonies 2,3 and 12, or Prokofiev "Song Of The Forest" or Odes to Stalin

Point taken and agreed with but, like those other two composers, these are in the minority, n'est-ce pas?...