Rachmaninov (1873 - 1943)

[cloughie]

Yes, thanks Lat-Lit - been (re)watching it, then listened to Rach's symphony no. 1 (again), but still don't appreciate it, followed by his first opera Aleko which I did enjoy. Am going to listen to Vespers now.

Interesting Pianorak, and I appreciate that not all of us like the same things but Sym 1 is for me one of those works full of life and joy!

[teamsaint]

Yes, thanks Lat-Lit - been (re)watching it, then listened to Rach's symphony no. 1 (again), but still don't appreciate it, followed by his first opera Aleko which I did enjoy. Am going to listen to Vespers now.

I was lucky enough to hear the LPO do Rach 1 with Jurowski just over a year ago. I think that might have got you into it !

And if you haven’t read it, there is a very persuasive essay by Robert Simpson on the work, well worth looking out.

[teamsaint]

Interesting Pianorak, and I appreciate that not all of us like the same things but Sym 1 is for me one of those works full of life and joy!

Hard to understand why it isn’t a lot more popular.

[cloughie]

Hard to understand why it isn’t a lot more popular.

...and a great choice of available recordings.

[BBMmk2]

I was lucky enough to hear the LPO do Rach 1 with Jurowski just over a year ago. I think that might have got you into it !

And if you haven’t read it, there is a very persuasive essay by Robert Simpson on the work, well worth looking out.

It was Andrew Litton that caused me to appreciate Rach's 1st! Now I have hmmm Jansons on the old EMI, Ashkenazy(Deccas)

[gradus]

Interesting Pianorak, and I appreciate that not all of us like the same things but Sym 1 is for me one of those works full of life and joy!

Irony Cloughie? Difficult to think of a bigger downer than the end of Rach 1. Horses for courses?

[jayne lee wilson]

Interesting Pianorak, and I appreciate that not all of us like the same things but Sym 1 is for me one of those works full of life and joy!

Hmm... I found that a strange description too.
The (stunning) finale to Rachmaninov's 1st always sounds to me like a Ride to the Abyss; and in the final pages, after agonised refusal, then recognition, of fate, there's no escape: The Gates of Hell open up...
The middle movements (with the scherzo reminding me of the one in Tchaikovsky's Manfred) tempt me to describe the work as a Russian Symphonie Fantastique - as if there's a hero subjected to various passions and (mis)-adventures. Then comes the finale and his awe-ful fate... (perhaps a Faust Symphony after all...)

Terrific symphony though, yes; those outer-movement rhythms can obsess you for days, follow you around in your head.
I've always loved that touching, gently glittering, recall of the dies irae-based main theme from the Symphony's first movement in the first movement of Rachmaninov's Symphonic Dances; as if he knew it was a masterpiece and felt a poignant regret about its own suppressed and unplayed fate after the disastrous première.

[cloughie]

Hmm... I found that a strange description too.
The (stunning) finale to Rachmaninov's 1st always sounds to me like a Ride to the Abyss; and in the final pages, after agonised refusal, then recognition, of fate, there's no escape: The Gates of Hell open up...
The middle movements (with the scherzo reminding me of the one in Tchaikovsky's Manfred) tempt me to describe the work as a Russian Symphonie Fantastique - as if there's a hero subjected to various passions and (mis)-adventures. Then comes the finale and his awe-ful fate... (perhaps a Faust Symphony after all...)

Terrific symphony though, yes; those outer-movement rhythms can obsess you for days, follow you around in your head.
I've always loved that touching, gently glittering, recall of the dies irae-based main theme from the Symphony's first movement in the first movement of Rachmaninov's Symphonic Dances; as if he knew it was a masterpiece and felt a poignant regret about its own suppressed and unplayed fate after the disastrous première.

I listen as I find and don't necessarily try to apply a programme to a symphony where it is not prescribed and I usually feel good after hearing the Symphony. By the way Jayne I don't know if you've read my attachement to my posting on the Bernstein thread #31 on his observations on Bruckner. I guess you will not agree with all of it!

[jayne lee wilson]

I listen as I find and don't necessarily try to apply a programme to a symphony where it is not prescribed and I usually feel good after hearing the Symphony. By the way Jayne I don't know if you've read my attachement to my posting on the Bernstein thread #31 on his observations on Bruckner. I guess you will not agree with all of it!

Well, the use of the Dies Irae motto theme throughout the work, and the inscription on the score from St. Paul "Vengeance is Mine, I will repay"(also used by Tolstoy for his Anna Karenina) give you at least some clue that it may not altogether be a feelgood piece of music....
D Minor symphonies do often have at least a grim defiance and confliction, often a sense of tragedy, explicitly or not, about them. They don't all end quite so apocalyptically as Rachmaninov's 1st, of course.

(Yes, interesting abruckner.com comments from Bernstein - thanks for the link).

[Lat-Literal]

Interesting posts.

I find that I am between the two expressed positions on the finale of Symphony 1. As with a fair amount of Rachmaninoff, I think it aches with life with an emphasis on both those key words. There is a cliff edge but it isn't quite the abyss. It is one in which we are taken more closely to what the substance of living is inside us than we might ever have thought to have been possible. It's there - precisely there - and yet it is also intangible. That to my mind is its emotional axis. In anyone other than the composer, it would almost be a taunt. But here, it's a bit like being taken out into the stormiest elements for an irresponsible adventure. The skies are black other than perhaps for a slight chink of light. The body is buffeted by the gales. Serious flooding just a little way along is depicting to many the weather's true malevolence. Here, though, amidst the bracing, spaces are filled by an "it is this" except "this" remains almost magically undefined. And of all the places in the world as we know it, this place is the one that unexpectedly delivers with a "what - can it really be?".........Splendour!.

[smittims]

Listening to The Second Symphony conducted by Sir Adrian Boult, sadly the cut version known in the west for many years but a splendid perfromance by the 1950s LPO, I was reminded of how long-lived was the old prejudice against this composer: the short dismissive entry in the old 'Grove' is a particulaly classic case. . Very few of the old school conductors played his music at all : Toscanini, Weingartner , Furtwangler, Beecham , Ansermet, Solti, for instance. I can recall Karajan and Colin Davis doing only one Rachmaninov work each. The many people who love this fine symphony would be incredulous to read Robert Simpson's disparaging remarks about it ithe Penguin Symposium.

Sir Adrian, Sir Henry Wood, Eugene Ormandy and Sir Malcolm Sargent were honourable exceptions. Boult recorded the first, second and fourth concertos, the Rhapsody (twice) and two of the symphonies. I believe the music was always popular with audiences (witness Brief Encounter) so the attitude of the critics is hard to understand today. Thankfully it seems to be just history.