Holst, Gustav (1874 - 1934)

[rauschwerk]

I sometimes think about forming a society to promote the performance of short choral and orchestral works, many of which are very neglected in the concert hall. Holst's Ode to Death (said to be a very beautiful work) falls into that category - perhaps that's why it's so rarely done? I remember it being done at Malcolm Sargent's funeral, so presumably he admired it.

I'm about to download it and get to know it.

[Alison]

The Planets Suite is the way in to orchestral music for a lot of people. I'm sure for many it's the only 'non-pop' recording they own.

I used to think of Mars as 'the Quatermass music', as did many others, I'm sure.

I hardly ever listen to it now. Richard's objection to it is interesting: definitely a point to consider.


Alfred Brendel also has a point about Rattle, one that I'd partially agree with (although SR isn't one of my favourite conductors). We don't need Rattle/BPO recordings of Carmina Burana or Carmen but as he is one of the few big names in non-pop music at the moment (and one of the few still with a contract), EMI/Warner are probably very keen for him to record popular repertoire.

I'm struggling to think of Rattles last Warner release. I sort of had the impression they'd parted company.

[pastoralguy]

I'm struggling to think of Rattles last Warner release. I sort of had the impression they'd parted company.

It's possible that Sir Simon and Warner are waiting until he starts his new post with the LSO before resuming recording with him. His most recent recordings have been on the Berliner Philharmoniker's own label so it's possible that he's re-negotiating a new contract.

Cycle of the George Lloyd Symphonies perhaps ?

[Eine Alpensinfonie]

Why leave out Jupiter?

Jupiter was the work that my young son of 6 or 7 liked so much in the 1980s. I promised that I'd buy him a recording of it if he learnt to eat with his mouth closed. That led to the word "Jupiter" being used whenever anyone ate with an open mouth. Other planets and their moons became associated with other transgressions.

Not only did young Alpensinfonietta get his Planets recording, but it was his first ever live orchestral concert - in Sheffield.

[BBMmk2]

Gustav Holst born on this day in 1874.

[Stanfordian]

It's possible that Sir Simon and Warner are waiting until he starts his new post with the LSO before resuming recording with him. His most recent recordings have been on the Berliner Philharmoniker's own label so it's possible that he's re-negotiating a new contract.

Cycle of the George Lloyd Symphonies perhaps ?

More chance of me singing at New York Met!

[cloughie]

I was at the 1966 Proms performance of The Planets, up in "the gods", when the bottom notes of the organ at the conclusion to the Saturn movement precipitated a sudden kerfuffle right behind me: a young woman having an epileptic fit!

I always think the work's orchestration to be one of the finest illustrations of the influence of French Impressionism on British composers at the time - one can also cite the opening and concluding passages of RVW's London Symphony - Ravel's especially. It always astonishes me how RVW and Holst felt able to make disparaging comments about Ravel's orchestration of his own Vales Nobles et Sentimentales.

Particularly cosideing that RVW studied orchestration under Ravel!

[Serial_Apologist]

Particularly cosideing that RVW studied orchestration under Ravel!

My admiration for, and love of Holst, increased the other day on re-listening to a cassette I had made of a broadcast on the composer a couple of decades ago - one in which was mentioned his having known William Morris and composed the music in commemoration of Morris, the slow movement of the Cotswold Symphony, in 1998. Holst's subsequent fascination for Hindu mythology, and his very own translations from The Upanishads in the Hymns of the Rig Veda, considered by some superior to the official (rather ponderous) translations available at the time, would have been closer to the spirit in which these verses would undergo academic re-appraisal in the 1960s, when aspects of Hindu and Buddhist culture and practice in arts, music, and counter-cultural spheres of the time, were up for a re-examination that in various ways questioned the earlier under-examined Christian bias applied to their interperetation by our worthy Edwardian antecedents.

Several connections were re-established in my mind. Today's divisions between concerns for the environment brought about by the effects of "advanced" capitalism's dependence on fossil fuels, linking up with Holst's principles on musical education as encouraging inner growth beyond the leisured classes with time on their hands of his era, which he sought to promote in work with the underprivileged at Morley College, accorded in two directions, which is to say: dia-chronologically back to the Arts & Crafts' opposition to the concomitant de-skilling of their era and alienation of labour; and forward to our own era when, contrary to the notion we were fed of new technology promising shorter working hours, it has just been used for purposes of rationalisation and capital accumulation. Had these incipient aspects of the universalist aesthetic and practice of Holst and those close to him in critical thinking been given serious consideration instead of being seen by those with ears to the powerful wishing to belittle them as amounting to a mere ruralist side show of puny irrelevance to our age of hyper-expansionist hubris, and the pride that has tragically outlived the fall (of 2008), we might not today be suffering the false twin alternatives of pan-globalism or nationalist retrenchment, and instead be informed in readiness for the more sustainable future which has to come, imho.

[BBMmk2]

I might play these later today. Holst’s Planets with RVW’s A London Symphony.

[pastoralguy]

Cycle of the George Lloyd Symphonies perhaps ?

We can only hope!

I wonder Sir Simon will record on the LSO's own label.

[gradus]

Anyone listened to the remarkable Beni Mora recently. I'd forgotten how powerful it is.

[Serial_Apologist]

Anyone listened to the remarkable Beni Mora recently. I'd forgotten how powerful it is.

Past comments about Beni Mora suggested it was not a popular work with forumites. Personally I like it; it isn't particularly Hostian, stemming from a period in which he was still digesting a range of influences. To me it sounds rather like early Sibelius - from the En Saga/Lemmingkainen period.

[NatBalance]

Let's add something to this post. I love Holst.

Well, that's a new one. I've never read of The Planets suite called 'kitsch' or 'obvious' before. I have grave misgivings about that word 'kitsch'. From what I know of its use I have grown to think it does not necessarily mean poor 'playing-to-the-masses' quality. It can very often mean vastly superior quality but called kitsch mainly because it is popular and possibly over played (the inevitable result of being a high quality piece of music).

Anyway, that aside, Holst has been a very warm and comforting favourite of mine ever since I heard The Planets in my mid teens in the 70s, and no matter how often I hear it it never becomes boring. Holst has a mysticism about his music that hits that magical spot that takes me most beautifully back into the mists of time and mythology, gods, the Elysian Fields. I love his way of using a choir, especially a female choir, and his subtle use of the celesta. It was great to hear some years ago his beautifull Ode to Death at The Proms, and his Hymn of Jesus I think has also appeared at The Proms. It would be nice to hear Savitri at that festival some time.

My favourite piece of The Planets is Neptune. I always say that hidden within the notes of that piece lie the answers to the universe. It is an absolute masterpiece and the nearest thing to a religion I have .... but .... I don't think the ending is properly understood by performers. The number of times I actually hear the distant choir stop singing I find very unsatisfactory, even on recordings. The ending of that piece is not to be rushed, you are not supposed to know when the music stops and the silence begins, that's the whole point of its ending, otherwise he would have marked the score for the singers to gradually fade their volume to triple or quadruple piano and then stop, but he did not do that. He instructed that a door between the choir and the hall to be gently closed and for the choir to 'quietly' walk away untill they cannot be heard in the hall. To produce a performance where you hear the choir stop singing is as bad as a performance of Haydn's Surprise symphony with the 'surprise' chord played at piano volume.

Rich

[Andrew Slater]

Let's add something to this post. I love Holst.

He instructed that a door between the choir and the hall to be gently closed and for the choir to 'quietly' walk away untill they cannot be heard in the hall. To produce a performance where you hear the choir stop singing is as bad as a performance of Haydn's Surprise symphony with the 'surprise' chord played at piano volume.

Rich

This can backfire in performance in my experience: at one concert there was an intrusive 'click' as a door was closed without the necessary care and at another a (presumably) hard-of-hearing audience member started applauding when the choir was still audible to most.

[NatBalance]

This can backfire in performance in my experience: at one concert there was an intrusive 'click' as a door was closed without the necessary care and at another a (presumably) hard-of-hearing audience member started applauding when the choir was still audible to most.

Well I don't think that's a case of backfiring. Hearing the door clicking (or a choir member clip clopping away in high heels), is a bad performance. A hard-of-hearing audience member should be looking at the conductor and their fellow audience members for queues as to when to clap. It's difficult to tell on YouTube clips because recordings are so quiet but here's what is possibly a good ending done of Neptune, except even at full volume I can't hear it properly on my equipment:- https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oFMXNUHuWug