Rubbra, Edmund (1901 - 1986)

[Serial_Apologist]

I've always thought Schoenberg a brilliant orchestrator and his 'Haupstimme' and 'Nebenstimme' markings merely a help for the conductor in view ofthe contrapuntal complexity of his work. Sir Adrian Boult said he found them helpful when he conducted the British (and shortly aftrewards, interestingly, the Viennese) premiere of op. 31 with the BBC S.O.

Yes we had a discussion around Schoenberg's orchestrations back in the good old days when Ahinton regularly contributed - iirc he agreed with my assessment of his having been influenced by Mahler's chamber textures, particularly in his vocal settings; also Debussy's or at any rate the new French school who were leaving Wagnerian methods of orchestration behind, as did Schoenberg after Gurrelieder. We speculated as to whether Mahler in his Seventh influenced Schoenberg in the Op.6 Chamber Symphony or the other way around. He disagreed with my description of Pelleas und Melisande's sound world as "muddy".

[smittims]

I think that if one compares Pelleas und Melisande with Sinfonia Domestica Schoenberg's skill can be appreciated (remembering that it was his first work for orchestra). Even those who cordially detest Strauss would hardly deny his skill in orchestration,yet he uses so many doublings that I feel a 'reduced scoring' version could be produced for , say , Brahms/Dvorak size,and one would have to be a Strauss expert to notice much difference, But in Pelleas everythng is essential . 'Muddy' is not unfair; it's meant to be a dark, gloomy piece .

I miss Alistair's contributions. I hope he is well.

[Serial_Apologist]

I think that if one compares Pelleas und Melisande with Sinfonia Domestica Schoenberg's skill can be appreciated (remembering that it was his first work for orchestra). Even those who cordially detest Strauss would hardly deny his skill in orchestration,yet he uses so many doublings that I feel a 'reduced scoring' version could be produced for , say , Brahms/Dvorak size,and one would have to be a Strauss expert to notice much difference, But in Pelleas everythng is essential . 'Muddy' is not unfair; it's meant to be a dark, gloomy piece .

I miss Aistair's contributions. I hope he is well.

Me too - Alistair could come across a bit "pontifical" sometimes, but having heard snatches of his music (nothing more ever seems available) I have to accede to the substance thereof, whilst not always agreeing with his views. He mentioned the Franco-Spanish composer Maurice Ohana's description of Strauss's orchestration as being "full of fat" into the discussion, including his "Strawss" pronunciation, indicating that he had remembered a radio interview of Ohana, which I happened to have kept on tape.

Hey! - I've done my usual thing of driving off the subject matter. But as it's to do with comparative approaches to polyphony, I suppose it was all right.