Rubbra, Edmund (1901 - 1986)

[smittims]

That Hyperion series has been wonderful. I especially liked the Delius/Ireland one with the fascinating three-movement second version of the Delius concerto.

[Master Jacques]

This is a wonderful thread. I have always found Rubbra's music rather unapproachable, but will explore more given the suggestions here. Thank you.

I'm glad you'll have another go. I remember listening to the opening movement of the 4th Symphony many times with incomprehension, until the penny finally dropped and I suddenly "got it", as something like a growing, organic entity - almost like a slowly-opening flower.

It's quite possible you've already sampled Barbirolli's recording of the 5th Symphony. But if not, it's often been re-released including:

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Rubbra-Symphony-Britten-Concerto-Threnody/dp/B0000241DI

[Serial_Apologist]

I'm glad you'll have another go. I remember listening to the opening movement of the 4th Symphony many times with incomprehension, until the penny finally dropped and I suddenly "got it", as something like a growing, organic entity - almost like a slowly-opening flower.

It's quite possible you've already sampled Barbirolli's recording of the 5th Symphony. But if not, it's often been re-released including:
https://www.amazon.co.uk/Rubbra-Symp.../dp/B0000241DI

I remember one of the criticisms levelled at Rubbra's music being that his orchestrations were grey, and the composer responding that perhaps he quite liked the colour grey!

[Pulcinella]

I remember one of the criticisms levelled at Rubbra's music being that his orchestrations were grey, and the composer responding that perhaps he quite liked the colour grey!

He certainly seemed to like tympani.
I find some of his insistent drum beats hard to take.
But perhaps not quite so bad as Nielsen's!

[smittims]

I've heard this criticism of Rubbra's orchestration. Someone told me Rubbra was a 'diabolical' orchestrator. I said 'Do you mean he orchestrates like the devil? That makes him sound like Berlioz'. He didn't seem to understand what I said.

I've always felt Rubbra's orchestration is just right. The opening of the Fifth, for instance, or the second movement of the Seventh. Surely these could not be scored more effectively.

[Master Jacques]

I've heard this criticism of Rubbra's orchestration. Someone told me Rubbra was a 'diabolical' orchestrator. I said 'Do you mean he orchestrates like the devil? That makes him sound like Berlioz'. He didn't seem to understand what I said.

I've always felt Rubbra's orchestration is just right. The opening of the Fifth, for instance, or the second movement of the Seventh. Surely these could not be scored more effectively.

His instrumentation serves the quiet, undemonstrative beauty of his melodies and contrapuntal web quite beautifully. That is what good orchestration ought to do, rather than draw attention to itself.

[Serial_Apologist]

His instrumentation serves the quiet, undemonstrative beauty of his melodies and contrapuntal web quite beautifully. That is what good orchestration ought to do, rather than draw attention to itself.

Possibly, although I have appreciation for Schoenberg's indications to highlight primary contrapuntal focus for performers for purposes of enhancing structural clarity. But in any case we are speaking of two fundamentally different compositional approaches.

[Bella Kemp]

I'm glad you'll have another go. I remember listening to the opening movement of the 4th Symphony many times with incomprehension, until the penny finally dropped and I suddenly "got it", as something like a growing, organic entity - almost like a slowly-opening flower.

It's quite possible you've already sampled Barbirolli's recording of the 5th Symphony. But if not, it's often been re-released including:
https://www.amazon.co.uk/Rubbra-Symp.../dp/B0000241DI

Thank you so much for this.

[silvestrione]

Warners have done a new remastering of the Rubbra/Barbirolli 4th Symphony, available as a download, or to stream.

[Master Jacques]

Possibly, although I have appreciation for Schoenberg's indications to highlight primary contrapuntal focus for performers for purposes of enhancing structural clarity. But in any case we are speaking of two fundamentally different compositional approaches.

You point to the interesting "leading voice" feature of Schoenberg's scores which continues to intrigue me. I can't help wondering if they are a sign that his works occasionally suffer from overscoring: why not offer a less thick orchestral impasto, rather than invite players to push themselves forward in the mix? I sometimes find myself wondering if those "leading voice" signs are an tacit admission of a failure to orchestrate more effectively. But only sometimes.

It's all the interesting, for sure, to compare Rubbra's orchestration of Brahms' Op.24 Variations, with Schoenberg's of the G Minor Piano Quartet, as we can on this intriguing disc:

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Brahms-Piano-Quartet-Variations-Handel/dp/B000000AKC

[Pulcinella]

Warners have done a new remastering of the Rubbra/Barbirolli 4th Symphony, available as a download, or to stream.

Oops....Number 5 (not 4), silvestrione.

[smittims]

I've always thought Schoenberg a brilliant orchestrator and his 'Haupstimme' and 'Nebenstimme' markings merely a help for the conductor in view ofthe contrapuntal complexity of his work. Sir Adrian Boult said he found them helpful when he conducted the British (and shortly aftrewards, interestingly, the Viennese) premiere of op. 31 with the BBC S.O.

[LMcD]

For those unfamiliar with Rubbra. may I recommend a couple of shorter works which could serve as an ideal introduction?
Soliloquy for Cello and Orchestra Op. 57
Improvisations on Virginal Pieces by Giles Farnaby Op. 50 (don't be put off by the title, it's an absolutely delightful piece!)

[richardfinegold]

His instrumentation serves the quiet, undemonstrative beauty of his melodies and contrapuntal web quite beautifully. That is what good orchestration ought to do, rather than draw attention to itself.

Didn’t Rubbra orchestrate one of the Brahms works? I came across it a few months ago and was impressed by the orchestration

[Serial_Apologist]

You point to the interesting "leading voice" feature of Schoenberg's scores which continues to intrigue me. I can't help wondering if they are a sign that his works occasionally suffer from overscoring: why not offer a less thick orchestral impasto, rather than invite players to push themselves forward in the mix? I sometimes find myself wondering if those "leading voice" signs are an tacit admission of a failure to orchestrate more effectively. But only sometimes.

It's all the interesting, for sure, to compare Rubbra's orchestration of Brahms' Op.24 Variations, with Schoenberg's of the G Minor Piano Quartet, as we can on this intriguing disc:
https://www.amazon.co.uk/Brahms-Pian.../dp/B000000AKC

Fair enough MJ - I believe you!