Edgard Varèse - BBC Total Immersion Day 6th May 2017

[Beef Oven!]

Listening to this 1966, premiere recording of the 1929 revised score. Must say that I’m loving it. A really fierce, rasping cacophonous performance in absolutely amazing sound quality. My old favourite 1929 version is the Boulez NYP on Sony, but I think this Abravanel may surpass it for its visceral impact (excuse the cliche).

A very interesting Gramophone article, Btw. Cheers Pulcinella, again!

[Pulcinella]

A very interesting Gramophone article, Btw. Cheers Pulcinella, again!

Some material for Pseud's Corner, perhaps (Varèse consciously ventriloquised a vision of the future out of all the material surrounding him!), but I liked the description of the 'camp little siren' in the Nagano version: the sound of air escaping a whoopee cushion!

I've only got the Sony Boulez version on my shelves, but at least it gets some decent enough comments (and your approval, of course )!
The Abravanel does sound like it's very special, though.

[Beef Oven!]

Some material for Pseud's Corner, perhaps (Varèse consciously ventriloquised a vision of the future out of all the material surrounding him!), but I liked the description of the 'camp little siren' in the Nagano version: the sound of air escaping a whoopee cushion!

I've only got the Sony Boulez version on my shelves, but at least it gets some decent enough comments (and your approval, of course )!
The Abravanel does sound like it's very special, though.

Yes, definitely psued’s corner - but, I have to say, it kinda sums it up.

I don’t like the 'camp little siren' because I don’t think I’m going to be able to listen to the Nagano recording again, without waiting expectantly for the whoopee cushion!!

I’ve only listened to the Abravanel once, but I was really impressed. I’d be interested to know what Bryn thinks of it.

Interestingly, I listened to the Morlot/Seattle directly after the MA/USO and was really disappointed. In fact I terminated my listening after about 5 minutes. It seemed so well-behaved and smooth. Actually, I was shocked and disappointed.

Going back to the Gramophone article to see what had provoked my Ameriques OCD episode and to buy this recording, I saw "The best version, though, is by Ludovic Morlot and the Seattle Symphony, recorded live... "They give a very rock n roll performance ...." "Brazenly punk in his approach, Morlot insightfully reminds us that although Varèse’s might be rooted in Stravinsky, Debussy and Schoenberg, the music’s authentic sound world must fly freely of preset ideals of 'correct' orchestration."

I think that my response to the Morlot was a reaction to listening to too many Ameriques in 48 hours and listening to it too soon after the Abravanel, before the visceral impact of that recording had left my senses. I’m guessing that my reaction is no reflection on the merit of this performance, rather it is relative to where my mind was at, in that moment.

I have transferred it to my Hi-Res portable player and will listen to it on a walk this lunchtime. I expect it to be a different experience from last night.

[Bryn]

Disappointed that Robert Craft did not include Ameriques in his CBS (now Sony) survey of Varese works, I heard the Abravanel on the Third (this was before Radio 3, IIRC) and got the LP as soon as I could afford it. It was my introduction to the work and feel it well deserves its recommendation. When the Nagano Varese CDs came out, I had great expectations of them which were not met to any great degree, though it was good to hear the original Paris interpolations for Deserts on disc.

This is a very fine performance, I think:

[Beef Oven!]

"Facts about Varèse’s life and work are difficult to obtain. He considers interest in them to be a form of necrophilia; he prefers to leave no traces"

John Cage

[ahinton]

"Facts about Varèse’s life and work are difficult to obtain. He considers interest in them to be a form of necrophilia; he prefers to leave no traces"

John Cage

Ahem. Cage must have thought Louise to be a disappointment at best, then.

[Beef Oven!]

Ahem. Cage must have thought Louise to be a disappointment at best, then.

I’d lend him my copy, but he’s not around.

[Bryn]

I see that even the Varèse 360b concerts did not include one surviving Varèse piece, that written in draft for jazz musicians and later realised and recoded by Jonny Reinhard and the AFMM and titled Graphs and Time. It's available on the AFMM "IDEAS" CD PITCH P-200212.

Edgard Varèse’s GRAPHS AND TIME was drawn from a sketch curiously envisioned for a jazz ensemble. Evidently frustrated by the technical difficulties of classical instrumentalists in his day to effect glissandi similar to a siren, Varèse sketched out a piece that Teo Macero titled, based on the graphic nature of the manuscript. There are eight distinct instrumental parts, one of which must be a percussionist. The graphically notated score is comprised of linear graph melodies drawn within the parameters of compound 4/4 measures, each with a quarter note beat of about a second each. There are in total only 16 measures in the single page score. The choices of instrumentation, in combinations, and in specific repetitions were conceived by Johnny Reinhard, who presents each performance of the work with a different instrumentation. Varèse wrote on one version of the sketch: “Dear Mr. Macero, here is the first sketch of an experiment” and left it undated. Although Varèse did conduct an ensemble in preparation for the work, that reportedly included percussionist Paul Motion, it was never again performed until 1987 by the AFMM in New York City. It has been performed since then in Paris at the Centre Pompidou, in Moscow at the Alternativa Festival, and by performances in NYC by the AFMM.

[Serial_Apologist]

I see that even the Varèse 360b concerts did not include one surviving Varèse piece, that written in draft for jazz musicians and later realised and recoded by Jonny Reinhard and the AFMM and titled Graphs and Time. It's available on the AFMM "IDEAS" CD PITCH P-200212.

Maybe the wrong place, but Paul Motian was probably meant.

[Bryn]

Indeed. My guess would be that the author of those notes (see #38) was caught out by auto-correct.

[Beef Oven!]

Only really of interest as a way to hear what exactly FVZ found so captivating. It is mono,so the spacial aspects are missing. There again, the Déserts interpolations make an interesting complement to the Boulez recordings.

This idea that you put took a little while to percolate through my brain, but I got there - yes, very interesting to hear exactly what it was that FZ was so moved by. I bought the download from Qobuz for about five and a half quid. Thanks for the idea!

[Beef Oven!]

"On the threshold of beauty, science and art collaborate" – Edgard Varèse

I have been listening to 'Ecuatorial' quite a bit over the past few days.

As much as I like Stockhausen’s electronic music, I can’t help thinking what might have been if Varèse had had the technology at his disposal that Karlheinz did.

[Beef Oven!]

'Ecuatorial' (1934)

Ensemble intercontemporain - conductor, Susanna Mälkki, et al

[Richard Barrett]

I can’t help thinking what might have been if Varèse had had the technology at his disposal that Karlheinz did.

When he made Poème electronique he did have (at the Philips research laboratories) at least as sophisticated technology as Stockhausen had already used in Gesang der Jünglinge but his musical thinking seems to have been stuck within the paradigm of instrumental composition, whereas Stockhausen was able to grasp the new possibilities for compositional procedures and structure implied by the new technology. Varèse uses electronic instruments in Ecuatorial as an extension of the orchestral apparatus familiar to him, rather than as something qualitatively new. While he was undoubtedly a highly progressive musical thinker, I don't think his results in practice often measure up to his theoretical ambitions.

[Beef Oven!]

When he made Poème electronique he did have (at the Philips research laboratories) at least as sophisticated technology as Stockhausen had already used in Gesang der Jünglinge but his musical thinking seems to have been stuck within the paradigm of instrumental composition, whereas Stockhausen was able to grasp the new possibilities for compositional procedures and structure implied by the new technology. Varèse uses electronic instruments in Ecuatorial as an extension of the orchestral apparatus familiar to him, rather than as something qualitatively new. While he was undoubtedly a highly progressive musical thinker, I don't think his results in practice often measure up to his theoretical ambitions.

Yes, the position circa Poème électronique did occur to me, but I was thinking of the technology available to Stockhausen for Licht and Klang.

There’s no doubt in my mind that Varèse was not as revolutionary as Stockhausen, and he did indeed use electronic instruments in Ecuatorial in the way you say.

Being 'stuck' within the paradigm of instrumental composition locates him properly, I agree; but think about how fascinating and stimulating the three electronic interpolations from Déserts are, compared to the orchestral episodes (and how different) and this might point to more a radical approach that could have been taken with the technology of the 1970s onwards.