Edgard Varèse - BBC Total Immersion Day 6th May 2017

[Beef Oven!]

Varèse, Edgard

"What is music but organised noises?" Not so much a question from Varèse, more a concise manifesto.

Born of a French mother and an Italian/French father in Paris in 1883, Varèse studied at the Schola Cantorum de Paris with Vincent d’Indy, Albert Roussel and then Charles Widor at the Conservatoire. Following composition study with Ferruccio Busoni in Berlin he emigrated to the USA, taking up work as a conductor and became part of the Greenwich Village intelligentsia.

His first major work was Amériques for large orchestra 1918/21 which he revised in 1927 for smaller forces. It was premiered by Stokowski and the Philadelphia Orchestra on 9th April 1926. A few days later a Carnegie Hall audience was given the full benefit of this new, completely original and shocking music, operating simultaneously as symbolic of America (especially New York City) and "the portrayal of a mood in music and not a sound picture'' (Varèse).

Riccardo Chailly has recorded the Original version on Decca, in a performing edition prepared by Professor Chou Wen-chung. I think this recording is the finest of all the excellent releases available. Here it is on YouTube ....

Fast-forwarding to 1958, we find Varèse unveiling his Poème électronique (1957) at the 1958 Brussels World Fair, a work of electronic music recorded on tape and played alongside other works by Xenakis et al, in the famous Philips Pavillion.

It is well known that Frank Zappa cites Varèse as powerful formative influence on his music. Something that despite being a Frank Zappa fan from the mid 1970s, way before I’d even heard of Varèse, I only found out about 2 years ago! On Frank Zappa’s 15th birthday, his mother allowed him an expensive long distance call to Varèse in New York. Sadly he was in Europe, but Zappa got to speak to his wife.

A full survey of the entirety of Edgar Varèse’s works will be given this May at the Barbican in a "Total Immersion Day" at the Barbican (Details). I have a day pass for all events and would urge anyone who has the slightest urge to follow it up and get along!

I have been lucky enough to attend concerts of Varèse’s music, including the BBCSO conducted by Pierre Boulez, with Elliott Carter in the audience.

Edgar Varèse died on 6th November 1965 in New York City.

[Richard Barrett]

"What is music but organised noises?" Not so much a question from Varèse, more a concise manifesto.

"Organised sound", in fact, which doesn't have the same connotations.

[Pulcinella]

As in

The rest is noise (Alex Ross)?

[Beef Oven!]

"Organised sound", in fact, which doesn't have the same connotations.

See post #5

[Beef Oven!]

As in

The rest is noise (Alex Ross)?

No!

As in

"what is music but organized noises?” from Varèse, Edgard, and Chou Wen-chung. 1966 "The Liberation of Sound". Perspectives of New Music 5, no. 1 (Autumn–Winter): 11–19.

Seems that other people (like Goldman 1961 and Wikipedia) have taken Varèse's use of the word 'noises' as 'sound' - in this context it makes no big difference, but I’m going with Varèse & Chou Wen-chung.

[Richard Barrett]

A fuller version of the quote:

First of all I should like you to consider what I believe is the best definition of music, because it is all-inclusive: "the corporealization of the intelligence that is in sound," as proposed by Hoëne Wronsky. If you think about it you will realize that, unlike most dictionary definitions which make use of such subjective terms as beauty, feeling, etc., it covers all music, Eastern or Western, past or present, including the music of our new electronic medium. Although this new music is being gradually accepted, there are still people who, while admitting that it is "interesting," say, "but is it music?" It is a question I am only too familiar with. Until quite recently I used hear is so often in regard to my own works, that, as far back as the twenties, I decided to my music "organized sound" and myself, not a musician, but "a worker in rhythms, frequencies, and intensities." Indeed, to stubbornly conditioned ears, anything new in music has always been called noise. But after all what is music but organized noises? And a composer, like all artists, is an organizer of disparate elements.

Varèse coined the term "organised sound" in the 1920s and used it often thereafter; organised noises occurs only in this text as far as I know

[Beef Oven!]

A fuller version of the quote:

First of all I should like you to consider what I believe is the best definition of music, because it is all-inclusive: "the corporealization of the intelligence that is in sound," as proposed by Hoëne Wronsky. If you think about it you will realize that, unlike most dictionary definitions which make use of such subjective terms as beauty, feeling, etc., it covers all music, Eastern or Western, past or present, including the music of our new electronic medium. Although this new music is being gradually accepted, there are still people who, while admitting that it is "interesting," say, "but is it music?" It is a question I am only too familiar with. Until quite recently I used hear is so often in regard to my own works, that, as far back as the twenties, I decided to my music "organized sound" and myself, not a musician, but "a worker in rhythms, frequencies, and intensities." Indeed, to stubbornly conditioned ears, anything new in music has always been called noise. But after all what is music but organized noises? And a composer, like all artists, is an organizer of disparate elements.

Varèse coined the term "organised sound" in the 1920s and used it often thereafter; organised noises occurs only in this text as far as I know

So "in fact" I was right in my quote of Varèse's question in the OP, and in fact you were wrong. I’m not sure I understand what your point is.

[Richard Barrett]

I’m not sure I understand what your point is.

I dare say. I was indeed surprised to find that Varèse used the word "noises" in this context and I thought it worth pointing out that he used "sound" earlier and more often to characterise his concept of music, so my point was to put all this in context. Of course you were right and I was wrong, if you must see it in those terms.

Personally I find his work a bit disappointing, in its quantity more than anything. Something that makes such a fantastic sound as Intégrales is over far too soon for the completely new world of sound it opens up. What was he doing all those years?

[Beef Oven!]

I dare say.

There, I gave you a way out.

[Richard Barrett]

There, I gave you a way out.

Grow up why don't you?

[ahinton]

A fuller version of the quote:

First of all I should like you to consider what I believe is the best definition of music, because it is all-inclusive: "the corporealization of the intelligence that is in sound," as proposed by Hoëne Wronsky. If you think about it you will realize that, unlike most dictionary definitions which make use of such subjective terms as beauty, feeling, etc., it covers all music, Eastern or Western, past or present, including the music of our new electronic medium. Although this new music is being gradually accepted, there are still people who, while admitting that it is "interesting," say, "but is it music?" It is a question I am only too familiar with. Until quite recently I used hear is so often in regard to my own works, that, as far back as the twenties, I decided to my music "organized sound" and myself, not a musician, but "a worker in rhythms, frequencies, and intensities." Indeed, to stubbornly conditioned ears, anything new in music has always been called noise. But after all what is music but organized noises? And a composer, like all artists, is an organizer of disparate elements.

Varèse coined the term "organised sound" in the 1920s and used it often thereafter; organised noises occurs only in this text as far as I know

I don't wish to appear pedantic, but is the word "call" missing between "to" and "my" in the sentence beginning "Until quite recently"?...

[Pulcinella]

I don't wish to appear pedantic, but is the word "call" missing between "to" and "my" in the sentence beginning "Until quite recently"?...

That's not all that's missing in that sentence, methinks; the beginning reads decidedly oddly!

[Beef Oven!]

Grow up why don't you?

You can talk!

And you you’ve edited/changed your post #8 from a sarcastic three word response (I dare say), in attempt to disguise where you were coming from. And it still doesn’t tally with your post #2.

[Beef Oven!]

Until today, I’ve been happy to listen to the two Pierre Boulez recordings of Déserts that I have on CD, one with the Ensemble Intercontemporain (Sony) and one with The Chicago Symphony Orchestra (Deutsche Grammophon), both without the three electronic interpolations.

For those unfamiliar with the work, Varèse composed this circa 25 minute work as 4 orchestral episodes with 3 alternate electronic sound interpolations. The original tapes were prepared by the electronic music/Musique Concrète pioneer, Pierre Schaeffer using sounds recorded in the US including the noises of factories, foundries and saw mills in Philadelphia. The premiere was given in Paris, 2nd December 1954 (with tapes) and was broadcast live with an introduction by Pierre Boulez.

Having listened to the recordings I have of the the work with the interpolations, I cannot understand how I could accept the straight orchestral renditions (Varèse had subsequently prepared a purely orchestral performing version). I have listened through 3 times each the performances that include the electronic interpolations by Kent Nagano, Erato (Orchestra National De France), Riccardo Chailly, Decca (Asko Ensemble) and Christopher Lyndon-Gee, Naxos (Polish National Radio Symphony Orchestra) and I cannot conceive of it in any other way.

Others’ mileage might be different.

It strikes me odd that someone as radical as Boulez would go for such an option.

Here’s Lyndon-Gee’s performance and for those interested, below that, is a link to a Boulez performance with the Ensemble Intercontemporain ....

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d39-92i1NDk

[Bryn]

... It is well known that Frank Zappa cites Varèse as powerful formative influence on his music. Something that despite being a Frank Zappa fan from the mid 1970s, way before I’d even heard of Varèse, I only found out about 2 years ago! On Frank Zappa’s 15th birthday, his mother allowed him an expensive long distance call to Varèse in New York. Sadly he was in Europe, but Zappa got to speak to his wife. ...

The very recording which introduced FVZ to EV's music has been re-issued on él label:



It appears to be currently out of print. With labels like él you have to strike while the iron is hot.