Farrenc, Louise (1804 – 1875)

[Barbirollians]

How dared she!

That’s the point . If she had written pretty French music for flute and harp some people on this forum might not have regarded her as getting above her station .

[french frank]

That’s the point . If she had written pretty French music for flute and harp some people on this forum might not have regarded her as getting above her station .

Yes, I think we're all subject to exactly what and how things are being presented to us. There can be no comprehensive hierarchy of composers according to who is most worthy and who least worthy to be broadcast; and no exact cut-off point to mark the division. 'Society' is saying that in the classical world women historically were largely ignored and didn't get the opportunities that men did, and now we're (over)compensating.

This is now: don't try and argue that the past somehow had it right and the present offers a deterioration in artistic standards. All our views are moulded by a blinkered experience.

[Ian Thumwood]

I much prefer discovering something myself as opposed being told what I should like. If something is hyped , I do find that to be off putting.

It is true that barriers were presented to female composers up until the post war period where I think attitudes have changed. In my mind , it is certainly worth checking out female composers from.before that period. I would concur that the many of the female composers in the book by Ms Beer seem to have been of historical more than musical interest. When I sort out the music of some of her examples on YouTube , I felt that she was very much overstating her case. The style of writing was also off-putting with every example being a woman thwarted by men. Some of this music is still obscure and not once did Beer opine that the music might have been bang average. I can understand the neglect but none of the examples were established quite like Louise Farrenc which I feel makes her interesting.

Similarly, I find the arguments for Schumann and Mendelssohn might be valid yet I just feel it is laziness on behalf of some for not checking out the likes of Boulanger who was great in anyone's criteria. I do not feel this is being modish but LB was , briefly , one of the best Composers of her time. I get why these two are celebrated, especially after the husband/ brother tried to diminish their will to conpose.

Rather than create an artificial league table as to.who was better than whom , I feel that these composers need to be looked at for their own merits. We should be pleased that someone like Farrenc existed and glad that she had increased the repertoire . I am intrigued to see if female composers offer something different to say. Caroline Shaw is someome whose music I have been pleased to encounter. I have listened to a lot of Cheminade too and feel that Smittims comments would best relate to her.

Beer's book so disappointed as Farrenc was missed along with other composers like Beach , Tailleferre , Basciewizc ( certainly she deserves praise? ) nor Sally Beamish who has impressed me in the past.

I do not feel that a fossil hunting expedition to find female, black or even Asian composers is politically correct. If you are curious about music, it is worth checking this out. I just feel that there is often more to music than the usual suspects and there is a need to recognise that there are plenty of male compsers who churned out ordinary work in copious volumes. I.e. been listening to Martinu chamber work this afternoon which is like test card music.

[Master Jacques]

I.e. been listening to Martinu chamber work this afternoon which is like test card music.

That's not as insulting as it might be, as the classic test card tones were written by Malcolm Arnold, who went on to use them in one of his symphonies. Once you get to know it intimately, Ian, you'll enjoy Martinu's chamber music a great deal, I promise you.

[mikealdren]

I do not feel that a fossil hunting expedition to find female, black or even Asian composers is politically correct. If you are curious about music, it is worth checking this out. I just feel that there is often more to music than the usual suspects and there is a need to recognise that there are plenty of male compsers who churned out ordinary work in copious volumes. I.e. been listening to Martinu chamber work this afternoon which is like test card music.

I agree entirely, it's great to unearth more music and I, personally, love finding new works to play. I've played the famous symphonies many times and really don't need to play them too often now. However there is a lot of political correctness now and every concert season has to contain works by non white male composers (look at the Radio 3 most performed composers). We should be looking at works on their merits. I've played Farrenc's 3rd symphony and enjoyed it but I think many of these works are suffering from over-exposure. Play Florence Price symphonies in proportion to their value and add some works by undervalued white males into the mix from time to time. There is simply too much positive discrimination.

[Ian Thumwood]

I really wanted to like Martinu. I gave 3 discs and like the cello concerti best of all. The kitchen utensil review is fun but the chamber music is pleasant but not memorable. It is a shame as I had high expectations of Martinu as I love classical music from that era. It is fun taking a punt on unfamiliar stuff yet Martinu is a bit like Poulenc.....it is agreeable but maybe not as biting as the likes of Prokofiev. Nice when you discover a composer no one else is into hence why I was intrigued by Farrenc.

[Pulcinella]

I really wanted to like Martinu. I gave 3 discs and like the cello concerti best of all. The kitchen utensil review is fun but the chamber music is pleasant but not memorable. It is a shame as I had high expectations of Martinu as I love classical music from that era. It is fun taking a punt on unfamiliar stuff yet Martinu is a bit like Poulenc.....it is agreeable but maybe not as biting as the likes of Prokofiev. Nice when you discover a composer no one else is into hence why I was intrigued by Farrenc.

Try his fifth symphony, Ian.
Never fails to cheer me up.

[Roger Webb]

Try his (Martinu's) fifth symphony, Ian.
Never fails to cheer me up.

Or 'Les Fresques de Piero della Francesca', describing the frescoes at Arezzo....Sir Charles Mackerras's tremendous version (I owe him one!) on Supraphon. Comes with the Double Concerto for two string orchs. and piano and timps. Now that work does have 'bite'. Oh, and the Field Mass too. SU 3276-2, Qobuz have it.

[Ian Thumwood]

I will check these out. Thanks for the advice.

I had picked up the chamber pieces on Naxos. This is a good label to explore music. The plusses have been Scarlatti, Haydn , CPE Bach and Prokokiev but the Villa Lobos piano series has impressed me most. For me , the biggest let down has been Mompou. Shame there is no Boulanger, Emelie Mayer, Louise Ferranc on the label.

[mikealdren]

Try his fifth symphony, Ian.
Never fails to cheer me up.

Or his concerto for double string orchestra, piano and timps.

[Roger Webb]

I will check these out. Thanks for the advice.

..........but the Villa Lobos piano series has impressed me most.......

If so, and your liking of the Martinu chamber pieces, you may also like Villa Lobos chamber music for various combinations, but the absolute masterpiece is the Quintette instrumental for Flute, Violin, Viola, Cello and Harp....has there ever been a piece more evocative of the Amazon jungle than the second movement of this piece?! Naxos 8,557765, again Qobuz has it.

[LMcD]

If so, and your liking of the Martinu chamber pieces, you may also like Villa Lobos chamber music for various combinations, but the absolute masterpiece is the Quintette instrumental for Flute, Violin, Viola, Cello and Harp....has there ever been a piece more evocative of the Amazon jungle than the second movement of this piece?! Naxos 8,557765, again Qobuz has it.

As Martinu already has his own thread under 'Composers', perhaps we could continue to discuss him there? I have recordings of chamber works and symphonies, all of which pass the 'Do I want to hear this again?' test.

[smittims]

Since you mentioned Cecile Chaminade, Ian , I have to say I'd put her and Farrenc on the same level: pleasant , neatly-written music one doesn't mind hearing once. There's a lot worse, but Chaminade's flute concertino is getting played too often on Radio 3 recently. .

[LMcD]

Since you mentioned Cecile Chaminade, Ian , I have to say I'd put her and Farrenc on the same level: pleasant , neatly-written music one doesn't mind hearing once. There's a lot worse, but Chaminade's flute concertino is getting played too often on Radio 3 recently. .

Perhaps that's because, while it only lasts for about 11 minutes, it can be cited as evidence that complete works are still to be heard.

[smittims]

While this thread's still up, I'll mention two other fe... erm, composers , I'd be glad to hear views on.

Ruth Watson Henderson's Missa Brevis was played on 'Through the Night' this morning at about 0405 GMT and Imogen Holst is next week's 'Composer of the Week'.