Farrenc, Louise (1804 – 1875)

[Master Jacques]

'[I]I don't think there have been negative comments here about Farrenc. They all seem pretty fair to me, and in the light of what you've said about Mozart I'm surprised you rate Farrenc so highly. If you don't think her recent exposure on Radio 3 is due to political correctness but to the quality of her music, how do you account for the fact that it is played far more often than that of Moscheles, Spohr , Meyerbeer, Boieldieu, Vieuxtemps and Marschner, who were surely just as good but are virtually unplayed on Radio 3?

As a writer on opera, I find myself listening to Spohr, Boieldieu and Marchner with increasing understanding and pleasure. It's not their fault that theatrical fashion (which of course tends to go around and come around) currently has almost no place for them. But Jessonda, La dame blanche (after Scott) and Hans Heiling (a fascinating, deep influence on Wagner) will have their time again, I am quite sure. These are the kind of composers that Radio 3 really ought to be programming, rather than guilt-tripping on ... [fill in the blank].

[smittims]

I suspect we're getting down to personal preferences here .Remember Tchaikovsky said that Raff was 'a giant' compared with Brahms! I admit I have not heard Farrenc's chamber music, but the music of hers I have heard suggests to me talent rather than genius.

[Master Jacques]

I suspect we're getting down to personal preferences here .Remember Tchaikovsky said that Raff was 'a giant' compared with Brahms! I admit I have not heard Farrenc's chamber music, but the music of hers I have heard suggests to me talent rather than genius.

It's easy to misunderstand Tchaikovsky's comment, which was made to disparage Brahms rather than praise Raff. It's as if Andrew Lloyd-Webber said that Karl Jenkins was a giant compared to Max Richter. PT's personal preference was for neither of 'em.

We might remember the famous New Years Eve party (at Joachim's I think) where Grieg and Brahms (who got on perfectly well) were present. Tchaikovsky turned up at the last moment, causing consternation as everyone knew what Tchaikovsky thought of Brahms, who was going through one of his sonatas at that moment in the host's music room. In the event Tchaikovsky crept in, listened attentively, and made some perfectly pleasant remarks, after which everyone got on swimmingly, at least for the evening.

[Ian Thumwood]

The saloon recital was full of those composers I really have no time for.

I need to listen to Farrenc more as the impression I had was that she was THE female composer of her time. It is noticeable how more favourable the opinion of Farrenc is on an outlet like YouTube.

I tend to agree with the opinion of Amy Beach whose music really disappointed me. Too much like Brahms whose one music I cannot abide.

I would rather hear the likes of Farrenc that over familiar stuff too. It is always fascinating to hear female composers but feel Classical music is miles behind jazz in this respect. In jazz, women composers are not an exception and the likes of Maria Schneider have set the standard. I love to hear what women have to say as artists. A different outlook is welcome. Not sure that a female composer would be on the receiving end of such critique on the Jass Bored.

[Master Jacques]

Classical music is miles behind jazz in this respect. In jazz, women composers are not an exception and the likes of Maria Schneider have set the standard. I love to hear what women have to say as artists. A different outlook is welcome. Not sure that a female composer would be on the receiving end of such critique on the Jass Bored.

Remember that the last two Masters of the (Monarch's) Music have been women, Judith Weir and Errolyn Warren. We've not had a man since Max.

If we're talking about 21st century art (or 'real music') composers, the field is pretty equally divided between female and male. And these days, they're all simply "composers", not "women composers", which is healthy.

[Nick Armstrong]

I am with Ian that the music of Farrenc especially her chamber music is a great deal more interesting than some of the composers smittims mentions

Agreed - I’ve derived a lot of pleasure from her chamber music and symphonies, the discovery of which is something I owe to latter-day Radio 3… (I’ll join LMcD in trying not to let the idea of T Service’s encomia, which happily I missed, put me off)

[Ian Thumwood]

There is alot for exploring more obscure composers and I do feel that it can lead to discovering lost masterpieces or music that never got it's just desserts when it was written. Even if the music is not great or revelatory, it can tell you about the musical environment of the time.

I have a cd of Philippine classical music written in late 19th and early 20th century and it is fascinating to see how influences as diverse as Debussy , Chopin and Sousa had an impact . This reflects the influence of Philippines passage from a Spanish to American colony . The REAL developments may have been happening in Europe at that time but I think it is illustrative of how music evolves. Some of the music is really good but some is only important because it betrays the broader influence of music. I feel the same about Farrenc. It is unexpectedly good and is worth the effort seeking out. You can make your own judgement if she is good. In my opinion she was better than the 2 examples usually cited for female composers. I wish that Bournemouth SO would programme her work. I would attend more often if their gigs in Basingstoke did not programme composers like Brahms or Dvorak whose work leaves me cold.

[Ian Thumwood]

The other thing I forgot to mention was that Farrenc was teacher at rhe Paris Conservatoire for 30 years and had did enjoy a reputation in her time. I so not get the feel that she was hushed by her male contemporaries so that she does not make such an obvious 'victim ' when it comes to selecting her music for reappraisal. She strikes me as someone who made her own , even publishing music with her husband. Farrenc does not seem the stereotypical female composer stiffled by males. From my point of view , she does seem interesting.

[LMcD]

I suspect we're getting down to personal preferences here .Remember Tchaikovsky said that Raff was 'a giant' compared with Brahms! I admit I have not heard Farrenc's chamber music, but the music of hers I have heard suggests to me talent rather than genius.

If you read my initial post, you'll see that I didn't suggest she was a genius, merely that listening to her music was a pleasurable, but not life-changing, experience.

[oliver sudden]

I am in Melbourne at the moment for family reasons and one morning found myself in the vicinity of an establishment which supposedly serves the world’s best croissants (according to the New York Times and others). For some reason the queue was negligible so I thought I would give it a go. It was nice enough in itself but ended up being an unsatisfying experience because I couldn’t get the hype out of my head.

It reminded me of my first experience of hearing Farrenc’s 3rd. I see that Tom Service says it’s “as impressively energetic and structurally satisfying as any of Mendelssohn’s or Schumann’s symphonies”. Someone else had put it unequivocally above Schumann, if I remember right. So I sat down to listen in keen anticipation…which of course turned rapidly to a disappointment from which I’m afraid my assessment of Farrenc’s music has yet to recover.

Farrenc is far from being the only composer who’s been spoiled for me in recent times by overselling. I do wish certain commentators might bear that risk in mind before they whack the hyperbole button.

[smittims]

Indeed, LMcD, I agreed with that assessment. No-one (here at least!)) has claimed she was a genius ; I was trying to establish a happy medium.

[Barbirollians]

I am in Melbourne at the moment for family reasons and one morning found myself in the vicinity of an establishment which supposedly serves the world’s best croissants (according to the New York Times and others). For some reason the queue was negligible so I thought I would give it a go. It was nice enough in itself but ended up being an unsatisfying experience because I couldn’t get the hype out of my head.

It reminded me of my first experience of hearing Farrenc’s 3rd. I see that Tom Service says it’s “as impressively energetic and structurally satisfying as any of Mendelssohn’s or Schumann’s symphonies”. Someone else had put it unequivocally above Schumann, if I remember right. So I sat down to listen in keen anticipation…which of course turned rapidly to a disappointment from which I’m afraid my assessment of Farrenc’s music has yet to recover.

Farrenc is far from being the only composer who’s been spoiled for me in recent times by overselling. I do which certain commentators might bear that risk in mind before they whack the hyperbole button.

That’s a fair point . I had already heard her Third in the Goritzki recording on YT and really liked it . I do sometimes feel that criticism and perhaps neglect of her work has been as much because she was strongly influenced by Beethoven and Austrian-German music rather than being a stereotyped French composer.Almost as if she should not have dared to write serious music.

[LMcD]

That’s a fair point . I had already heard her Third in the Goritzki recording on YT and really liked it . I do sometimes feel that criticism and perhaps neglect of her work has been as much because she was strongly influenced by Beethoven and Austrian-German music rather than being a stereotyped French composer.Almost as if she should not have dared to write serious music.

How dared she!

[Ian Thumwood]

By all accounts she was very much part of the French musical establishment in mid 1800s . Her neglect followed her passing in 1875. It is true that there was very much a bias towards German compositional style but it is worth remembering that the Franco Prussian War took place in 1870 and this would surely have generated anti Germanic bias and a forging if a distinct French identity in music.

For various reasons, composers like Bach and Vivaldi have both suffered periods of neglect. I don't think the case of Ferranc is any different.

There is a degree of prejudice against women composers in here.

[smittims]

I don't think you could demonstrate that, Ian. All I see is a comment on the quality of the music as music, regardess of the sex of the composer.