Heitor Villa-Lobos

[Ian Thumwood]

Surprised that no one has started a thread for this fascinating composer. I have been exploring the piano works performed by Sonia Rubinsky. There seems to almost be a consensus that, as a composer from outside Europe, his music is not so valued. I am fascinated by his music. Some of it is quite simple but other pieces seem very difficult. I picked up an anthology of his piano music and you get the same impression of pieces either being very easy to play or extremely difficult. There is no middle ground.

The Rubinsky discs on Naxos are fascinating. Villa-Lobos is divorced from the prominent trends within Classical music in the 20th century and strikes me as being very idiosyncratic. My impression is that he is seriously under-rated and perhaps deserves more respect as a towering voice in Classical music in the last 120 years albeit one which probably resonates more with the likes of Egberto Gismonti and Hermeto Pascoal than with Classical composers in Europe. Maybe the playfulness and mischief making of his work counts against him. I recommend the Rubinsky recordings.

[smittims]

I must say I've always found Villa-Lobos to be valued for his originality. I don't think he's underrated; Naxos have done his symphonies proud. Naturally , considering his vast ouput, much of it must be neglected. He was uneven, but his best music , such as the Choros and Bachianas series are well worth hearing from time to time. Radio 3 did a good selection of his music a few years ago when it was some anniversary.

[Pulcinella]

A couple of recommendable (by me and others on here, I think) collections here.

The complete string quartets:

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Villa-Lobos-Complete-Quartets-Cuarteto-Latinoamericano/dp/B00020Q2ZU/ref=sr_1_3?crid=3GMVLABXXQ106&keywords=villa+lobos+string+quartets&qid=1700206991&s=music&sprefix=Villa+lobos+string+%2Cpopular%2C63&sr=1-3

The complete Choros and Bachianas Brasileiras:

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Villa-Lobos-Complete-Choros-Bachianas-Brasileiras/dp/B002CAOVVK/ref=sr_1_1?crid=3OQ3KE7Y6EZI6&keywords=villa+lobos+choros&qid=1700207100&s=music&sprefix=villa+lobos+choros%2Cpopular%2C64&sr=1-1

[richardfinegold]

I’ve been attending a series of Classical Guitar recital the past 2 years and Villa Lobos tends to be routinely programmed, but always different repertoire

[Sir Velo]

The Preludes and Etudes as played by the late Julian Bream are of course hors concours, and one of the undisputed masterpieces of the 20th century classical guitar literature, along with Britten's Nocturnal.. Bream, himself, gave a BBC masterclass on three of the Preludes which can be found on YouTube. Insightful as one would expect, the programme is notable for Bream's occasional waspish asides as he plays to the gallery for effect: "Noooo", he bellows at one hapless student. "This is passionate music; you make it sound like he's popping down the shops to get the groceries!"

[Ian Thumwood]

Thanks for the recommendations.

I am finding Villa-Lobo's music for piano to be pretty unique. This makes it difficult to decide where it sits in the Classical pantheon or indeed whether or not he should be considered "modern.." Nice to know that other people like his music too. For me, he was a composer who was thinking outside of the box and deserves credit for doing so. I was surprised how radical some of the effects he deploys in the "Amazonas" are. It is like he can get away with outrageous use of time and disonant harmonies simply because the music is infectious. If you wanted to convert a sceptic to 20th century classical music, surely Villa-Lobos would be a good starting point?

[Sir Velo]

Thanks for the recommendations.

I am finding Villa-Lobo's music for piano to be pretty unique.

If you haven't come across it already, Rudepoema is undoubtedly a masterpiece. Nelson Freire's performance on a CD devoted to VL's solo music is highly recommendable.

[smittims]

I should say the best way to convert a sceptic to 20th-century classical music is to play Schoenberg's 50 opus numbered works in chronological order. I think that would show, more clearly than Villa-Lobos' music would, how 20th-century music evolved from that of previous centuries.

[Keraulophone]

'...play Schoenberg's 50 opus numbered works in chronological order.

'Earlier on, Richard Strauss had been impressed by Schoenberg's music and found him paid work. But he discouraged the performance of the Five Orchestral Pieces as too far in advance of audiences, and subsequently remarked, "Poor Schoenberg! Nobody can help him now. He'd be better off shovelling snow" - from an article in the Independent 'The shock of 'Elektra'.

Stravinsky would be an obvious candidate through which to trace developments in C20th music.

[smittims]

I didn't want to divert the thread away from Villa-Lobos, but I don't think Stravinsky's music displays the same evidence of 20th-century music's evolution from the past (Bach-Mozart-Beeethoven-Schubert-Brahms) as does Schoenberg's. The second quartet is an example of what I meant. Villa-Lobos, on the other hand, is eclectic in a different way, with his influence of street music, Bach-revival counterpoint and of course the guitar tradition.

[Nick Armstrong]

Surprised that no one has started a thread for this fascinating composer...

Have you noticed that a new Pentatone release includes a considerable amount of Villa-Lobos (it was referred to on Record Review this morning)?

[Pulcinella]

I perhaps should have mentioned that, although it doesn't appear on the cover, the BIS box set of Choros and Bachianas Brasileiras mentioned previously also contains the complete music for solo guitar, played by Anders Miolin.

[Ian Thumwood]

Cheers, Nick

I was not aware of that but thanks for the "heads up."

I listened to one of the symphonies yesterday morning (No. 7) and it seemed Ok althiough more "European" than I had anticipated. It was interesting to learnt hat his 3rd and 4th symphonies were prompted by Brazil's entry in to WW1 that has been prompted by the sinking of a cargo ship. The piano music has intrigued me but I would be interested in exploring further. The "Prole du baby" sets are intriguing too albeit they are somewhat misleading as the music is too advanced for ordinary kids and I think that he may have been ironic in titling the work.

Someone mentioned to me in a PM that there is a lack of appreciation in Europe of South American composers which I think may be true although some of these composers produced compositions which bled through into more popular idioms. I am thinking about the likes of Lecuna and Piazolla in particular. From what I have heard of V-B, the music is influenced by popular and folk music from his country yet he seemed to re-cast it in fashion what was very idiosyncratic. There are other "musically nationalist" composers who I also admire such as Bartok, Enescu, Janacek, etc. I would be inclined to say V-L was very much cut from the same cloth. I know he also went on musical field trips like Bartok.

[Quarky]

Thanks for posting this thread Ian, which has prompted me to reacquaint myself with Villa-Lobos, a composer I enjoy greatly.
I guess he had advantages over other South American composers in that he spent several years in pre-war Paris, a time of great musical activity.. Rubinstein was a great ally
Tending towards his smaller scale pieces, I am not a fan in general of large scale works, no matter the composer. However I did note there is a recent release of his last major work Suite Floresta do Amazonas, and this was reviewed in the Guardian.

[CallMePaul]

Have you noticed that a new Pentatone release includes a considerable amount of Villa-Lobos (it was referred to on Record Review this morning)?

Given the length of the CD it is a pity that all 5 preludes were not included. However, it seems an interesting disc and I may consifer buying it. The extract from the Ginastera played in Record Review last Saturday also interested me,