Jenkins, Karl

[french frank]

only because it defined a "German-ness" of style which stuck around. The same's true for Smetana, whose music doesn't "sound Czech", so much as defining a fruitful style by its strength and personality which, developed by others, became identified with "Czech-ness".

And as Wittgenstein said, meaning is use. Words have no inherent, primordial meaning: they develop meaning from the way people use them (and what others understand them to have meant).

[LMcD]

And as Wittgenstein said, meaning is use. Words have no inherent, primordial meaning: they develop meaning from the way people use them (and what others understand them to have meant).

Every recording should have a sound check.

[Serial_Apologist]

And as Wittgenstein said, meaning is use. Words have no inherent, primordial meaning: they develop meaning from the way people use them (and what others understand them to have meant).

Possibly subconscious intentionality would be a better angle from which to deduce or infer inherent meanings in musical gestures here? We either impute or do not impute "musicality" to given sounds, and then the argument becomes one of defintion - are some sounds musical and others not? I hear a regular rhythmic squeaking noise coming from outside and spend some time asking myself which bird makes such a sound. Curiosity wins the day - I have to go outside to find out where the sound is coming from, only to discover the source as being a neighbouring flat where re-decorating is taking place.

[smittims]

May years ago I was on a train which rattled over the points at the entrance to Worcester Shrub Hill station. It sounded just like the 'critics revival' in Ein Heldenleben , bars 3-4 after fig. 103; 'squeak, squeak, parrp!' Strauss was ahead of his time.

[Serial_Apologist]

May years ago I was on a train which rattled over the points at the entrance to Worcester Shrub Hill station. It sounded just like the 'critics revival' in Ein Heldenleben , bars 3-4 after fig. 103; 'squeak, squeak, parrp!' Strauss was ahead of his time.

The first variation of Elgar's Enigma unfurls a very similar zig-zaggy chromatic line - it would have been composed about a year after Ein Heldenleben. One wonders if Elgar would have had knowledge of Strauss's latest music at that time. Another close example consists in the opening measures of the second movement of Schoenberg's Second String Quartet.

[smittims]

I'm sure Elgar had not heard Ein Heldenleben when he composed the Variations. The skittering figure at the start of HDS-P is said to have been suggested by Stewart-Powell's habit of fluttering his hands over the keyboard before playing. But there are precedents in Mendelssohn which Elgar andSchoenberg would have known.

[Master Jacques]

I'm sure Elgar had not heard Ein Heldenleben when he composed the Variations. The skittering figure at the start of HDS-P is said to have been suggested by Stewart-Powell's habit of fluttering his hands over the keyboard before playing. But there are precedents in Mendelssohn which Elgar andSchoenberg would have known.

While I don't disagree with your point, we tend to forget that composers could (and did) buy and read the latest scores, without needing to wait for first London performances.