Jenkins, Karl

[smittims]

By the time Sam has finished with Radio 3 its content may make Karl Jenkins and Rachel Portman sound like Bruckner and Buxtehude by comparison. That, as i see it , has beenthe nub of this debate: not that there's anything intrinsically wrong about someone liking KJ's music, just that it's not for R3. I like Henry Hall and Russ Conway, but I wouldn't want them on Radio 3.

[french frank]

Regarding Karl Jenkins, Sarah Walker has reported a favourable reaction from many listeners to the Benedictus from The Armed Man.

Curiously, whenever there is adverse reaction here to a particular musical item, there's often a special announcement on R3 saying many people have written in to say how much they enjoyed it: "More please".

For the BBC managers, that means give 'em more. It doesn't seem to take long for people to overlook the fact that the 'enjoyment' particular listeners get from a type of music, a work, a performance or the popularity of a composer ... has nothing to do with its suitability for broadcast on Radio 3. Just because none of the other stations would broadcast me singing doesn't mean Radio 3 has to.

Regular quote coming up: "The BBC has never sat down to define 'culture', or what a 'cultural network' should be doing. Nor has it really ever faced up to the fact that if such a network is to do its job properly, it will, by definition, only have a very small audience. But that audience matters."

[Serial_Apologist]

Curiously, whenever there is adverse reaction here to a particular musical item, there's often a special announcement on R3 saying many people have written in to say how much they enjoyed it: "More please".

For the BBC managers, that means give 'em more. It doesn't seem to take long for people to overlook the fact that the 'enjoyment' particular listeners get from a type of music, a work, a performance or the popularity of a composer ... has nothing to do with its suitability for broadcast on Radio 3. Just because none of the other stations would broadcast me singing doesn't mean Radio 3 has to.

Regular quote coming up: "The BBC has never sat down to define 'culture', or what a 'cultural network' should be doing. Nor has it really ever faced up to the fact that if such a network is to do its job properly, it will, by definition, only have a very small audience. But that audience matters."

Sounds like a rationalisation or excuse for re-making Radio 3's culture into a soft-centred, escapist one. For me the self-serving Karl Jenkins's music serves that purpose well, being limited in formal and expressive scope to a past era, which is the mythical Shangri La reactionaries everywhere always advocate. Maybe those arguing that there is money in KJ's music because there can't be any other sort in our shrunken world of poverty, inequality and environmental degradation, will henceforth, in the name of consistency, stop complaining about the dumbing down of Radio 3?

[LMcD]

By the time Sam has finished with Radio 3 its content may make Karl Jenkins and Rachel Portman sound like Bruckner and Buxtehude by comparison. That, as i see it , has beenthe nub of this debate: not that there's anything intrinsically wrong about someone liking KJ's music, just that it's not for R3. I like Henry Hall and Russ Conway, but I wouldn't want them on Radio 3.

I think Henry Hall featured in a delightful early evening Radio 3 series called 'Cocktails' which, was broadcast in the first couple of months of 1998. I recorded some episodes on audio cassette tapes and still enjoy them regularly. If one accepts, however grudgingly, that there are people who happen like listening to the works of Karl Jenkins (which I don't on the basis of what I've heard) and/or inter-war dance bands (which I love), but they don't belong on Radio 3, is one not entitled to ask where DO they belong? They certainly don't seem to be regarded as belonging to Radio 2. and I can't see any other likely platforms in the case of the case of Ambrose, Al Bowlly and company.

[oddoneout]

I've heard similar comments from friends and acquaintances (Radio 3 'regulars') about Andre Rieu. A compilation of clips from various concerts happened to be showing on the TV in the care home, and I was struck by both the involvement and the range of ages of the audiences at the various concerts and the happiness on the faces of those in the residents' lounge, some of whom I'd never seen sing before. Given the state of the the UK and the world in general, I would venture to suggest that we should be grateful to any composers or performers who spread a little happiness (great title for a song, that).

Regarding Karl Jenkins, Sarah Walker has reported a favourable reaction from many listeners to the Benedictus from The Armed Man. I don't know whether these listeners were all pre-existing admirers of KJ's works, but I suppose it's possible that some may have discovered them thanks to CotW. Whether or not he was 'entitled' to have his compositions featured in a week of programmes is open to discussion, but it may be worth pointing out that some months ago the chosen subject was a film composer (Rachel Portman?) whose stature is, at least to judge from what I heard, not on a par with that of Karl Jenkins, and it so happens that apparently next Sunday is going to be Cinema Day On Radio 3, to tie in with the Oscars. Another straw in the wind indicating a shift in the 'feel' of Radio 3?

There is a difference between Andre Rieu and Jenkins, in that AR(and his company) performs music that has been written by other(well known "classical") composers and arguably in a way not that far removed from the original in some respects(such as waltzes and concert arias), whereas KJ seems to filch bits of other compositions and stitch them roughly into something he calls his own.
A bit of brain exercise during rehearsals of The Armed Man is to "name that tune"...
In terms of KJ on R3, I think the way to approach it is, rather than banning it(censorship brings its own problems), to come up with a better version of whatever it is that has been played and got positive responses. Speaking of which, I would be interested to know how many negative ones there were - there must have been some I would have thought?

[LMcD]

There is a difference between Andre Rieu and Jenkins, in that AR(and his company) performs music that has been written by other(well known "classical") composers and arguably in a way not that far removed from the original in some respects(such as waltzes and concert arias), whereas KJ seems to filch bits of other compositions and stitch them roughly into something he calls his own.
A bit of brain exercise during rehearsals of The Armed Man is to "name that tune"...
In terms of KJ on R3, I think the way to approach it is, rather than banning it(censorship brings its own problems), to come up with a better version of whatever it is that has been played and got positive responses. Speaking of which, I would be interested to know how many negative ones there were - there must have been some I would have thought?

'We had 143 responses, of which 178 were favourable and 2 were negative'.

[smittims]

That explains why I've given up on 'democracy'.

In answer to LMcD's question as to where KJ and inter-war dance bands belong, it's The BBC Light Programme. Bring it back together with the Third, and we'd be fine.

[french frank]

I think the way to approach it is, rather than banning it(censorship brings its own problems), to come up with a better version of whatever it is that has been played and got positive responses.

Another approach might be for knowledgeable producers to think of 'classical' composers/works which, quite inexplicably, are seldom if ever played on R3 but deserve to be. Or even a complete work instead of a single movement. This would not in any way be to detract from KJ and what he composes. Any more than it's to detract from Friday Night Is Music Night, dumped on R3 because R2 didn't want it and the BBC said to itself "Yes, but there's still an audience for it so we'll move it to R3. They play orchestras."

It isn't as if there's any shortage of less well-known works that could be played, so one has to conclude that KJ was selected, precisely for who he is, what he composes and, importantly, the audience he appeals to.

[Ein Heldenleben]

There is a difference between Andre Rieu and Jenkins, in that AR(and his company) performs music that has been written by other(well known "classical") composers and arguably in a way not that far removed from the original in some respects(such as waltzes and concert arias), whereas KJ seems to filch bits of other compositions and stitch them roughly into something he calls his own.
A bit of brain exercise during rehearsals of The Armed Man is to "name that tune"...
In terms of KJ on R3, I think the way to approach it is, rather than banning it(censorship brings its own problems), to come up with a better version of whatever it is that has been played and got positive responses. Speaking of which, I would be interested to know how many negative ones there were - there must have been some I would have thought?

To be honest with you at the start of the week of COTW I was very much in the I -can’t- stand- KJ’s -music -camp . But by Thursday Karl had emerged in interview as such a kind , charming and thoughtful man that I was completely disArmed as it were and actually started liking some of his music, That charm must be quite a big factor in his extraordinary success.

[smittims]

I had exactly the same experience with Madonna Ciccone .

[oddoneout]

To be honest with you at the start of the week of COTW I was very much in the I -can’t- stand- KJ’s -music -camp . But by Thursday Karl had emerged in interview as such a kind , charming and thoughtful man that I was completely disArmed as it were and actually started liking some of his music, That charm must be quite a big factor in his extraordinary success.

There is certainly something about his music that seems to grab people's attention favourably. I did think that it might be useful to listen to at least some of the CotW, but in the end a mix of didn't really want to and being otherwise occupied put paid to that. I think if my experience of his music was as a listener things might be different, but having sung the fully armed and the austerity version of The Armed Man plus a couple of outings of Adiemus, and really not enjoyed them "from the inside" has made me resistant. A failing perhaps, but at my age I have decided that there is enough that I do enjoy not to want to persist overmuch with things I don't, even if it might mean missing something that would give me pleasure.
Knowing the audience enjoys the KJ and it has a positive effect re:bums on seats makes it easier to put up with; happy smiling faces and generous applause from the listeners is always rewarding.

[Pulcinella]

Times review of the 80th birthday concert.

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/e27f7882-575a-45d4-ba60-3c56cca8abee?shareToken=7dbfe316a60a826563b898e45f51719e

[Serial_Apologist]

Times review of the 80th birthday concert.

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/e...b898e45f51719e

See what rewards you can get for being a "jazz renegade"!

[LMcD]

See what rewards you can get for being a "jazz renegade"!

I wonder how many people went along solely, or mainly, to see and hear Roderick Williams.

[french frank]

Times review of the 80th birthday concert.

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