Adams, John

[Bryn]

Well, to put in my pennyworth, My favourite Adams work remains the much despised Grand Pianola Music. I don't really get on with anything much he has done from El Niño onwards, except that is, his conducting of Ives 4th, which he seems to me to have a real affinity with.

[Black Swan]

I do agree with Bryn on one point. I do love the much despised Grand Pianola Music. I do get most of Adam's music and enjoy it,

[Serial_Apologist]

Well, to put in my pennyworth, My favourite Adams work remains the much despised Grand Pianola Music. I don't really get on with anything much he has done from El Niño onwards, except that is, his conducting of Ives 4th, which he seems to me to have a real affinity with.

And with Busoni, some of whose piano music he arranged very effectively imv, though admittedly I'm thinking of the "Elegies" and this is going on a broadcast a long time ago.

[jayne lee wilson]

If Richard Barrett can inflict Nixon upon himself I'm sure I can manage some Nancarrow... !

Borrowed a quick listen of those orchestrated piano studies off Amaz, and quickly ordered the Ensemble Modern/Metzmacher/Nancarrow thing, sounds really intriguing! I could hear right away why RB referenced it to the Adams' Chamber Symphony...

Thanks for that recommend, Richard. When it gets here I'll program it with aforesaid Chamber Symphony and see what happens...

[Richard Barrett]

If Richard Barrett can inflict Nixon upon himself

Well, now he has. First I should say to Stanfordian that I have no problem concentrating on longer musical works, and in fact I tend to prefer them, all other things being equal, which of course they never are...

I found the libretto of Nixon eloquent, often startlingly so, and the way many of the phrases are enhanced by repetition of various kinds shows a fascinating relationship between text and music. And no doubt the expressive qualities of the text would be enhanced greatly on seeing a staged realisation. On the other hand the musical material struck me as rather commonplace - figurations and harmonic turns often too reminiscent of Glass, more subtly orchestrated to be sure, but without the angularity that makes these features in Glass (at his most individual) occupy the foreground as "minimal" elements, rather than sounding like accompaniments to something that isn't there, since the vocal lines are basically functional rather than memorable.

For me Nixon in China illustrates a basic problem with much music that attempts to use minimal techniques as a starting point: without the structural single-mindedness and the stark timbral demarcations all you're left with often is a background without a foreground. The combination of the clever and thought-provoking libretto with a musical technique based on an eclectic choice of materials which are then spun out through repetition, and occasionally punctuated by cinematic climaxes, ought to "work" - but for me it falls uncomfortably and uncommittedly between the various (more "extreme"?) directions it could have taken, and the music feels too safe and middle-of-the-road in its response to the subject-matter, the orchestral accompaniment churned out by the yard and the vocal material draped over it in a facile and predictable sort of way. However I have a comparable reaction to many if not most contemporary opera, so I don't want to give the impression I'm particularly down on Adams. I can see why this work has had the success it has, but I can't help thinking that (a) it could have been so much better and (b) that writing for the resources of a traditional opera house is a recipe for exactly this kind of compromised work. Now I really am going to go away from this thread and leave Adams and his admirers alone!

[richardfinegold]

Well, now he has. First I should say to Stanfordian that I have no problem concentrating on longer musical works, and in fact I tend to prefer them, all other things being equal, which of course they never are...

I found the libretto of Nixon eloquent, often startlingly so, and the way many of the phrases are enhanced by repetition of various kinds shows a fascinating relationship between text and music. And no doubt the expressive qualities of the text would be enhanced greatly on seeing a staged realisation. On the other hand the musical material struck me as rather commonplace - figurations and harmonic turns often too reminiscent of Glass, more subtly orchestrated to be sure, but without the angularity that makes these features in Glass (at his most individual) occupy the foreground as "minimal" elements, rather than sounding like accompaniments to something that isn't there, since the vocal lines are basically functional rather than memorable.

For me Nixon in China illustrates a basic problem with much music that attempts to use minimal techniques as a starting point: without the structural single-mindedness and the stark timbral demarcations all you're left with often is a background without a foreground. The combination of the clever and thought-provoking libretto with a musical technique based on an eclectic choice of materials which are then spun out through repetition, and occasionally punctuated by cinematic climaxes, ought to "work" - but for me it falls uncomfortably and uncommittedly between the various (more "extreme"?) directions it could have taken, and the music feels too safe and middle-of-the-road in its response to the subject-matter, the orchestral accompaniment churned out by the yard and the vocal material draped over it in a facile and predictable sort of way. However I have a comparable reaction to many if not most contemporary opera, so I don't want to give the impression I'm particularly down on Adams. I can see why this work has had the success it has, but I can't help thinking that (a) it could have been so much better and (b) that writing for the resources of a traditional opera house is a recipe for exactly this kind of compromised work. Now I really am going to go away from this thread and leave Adams and his admirers alone!

I agree with that. I haven't seen Nixon and only know a few excerpts, but I had a similar reaction to what RB just described after seeing both Dr Atomic and Klinefelter. They both work as theater, with interesting, even challenging librettos. The Music works in terms of telling the story but with the limitations that RB describes.
The limitations of the music become more apparent when it has to stand on it's own, such as Adams arrangement that he calls the Dr Atomic Symphony, which I listened to last night. It isn't without interest, but not nearly as compelling as the staged work.

[peterthekeys]

I tend either to love Adams or hate it. I find some of his work has a sentimental and mawkish streak which repels me. On the other hand, "Harmonielehre" and "Harmonium" would both be on my Desert Island Discs list (I've got the full scores of both of them!) I particularly love his architecture, and the way he constructs massive build-ups (e.g. the one after the middle section of the first movt. of Harmonielehre, and particularly the breathtaking one which links "Because I could not stop for death" to "Wild Nights" in Harmonium - like some enormous engine starting from cold and gradually revving up to full working speed.)

[Serial_Apologist]

I tend either to love Adams or hate it. I find some of his work has a sentimental and mawkish streak which repels me. On the other hand, "Harmonielehre" and "Harmonium" would both be on my Desert Island Discs list (I've got the full scores of both of them!) I particularly love his architecture, and the way he constructs massive build-ups (e.g. the one after the middle section of the first movt. of Harmonielehre, and particularly the breathtaking one which links "Because I could not stop for death" to "Wild Nights" in Harmonium - like some enormous engine starting from cold and gradually revving up to full working speed.)

Adams's music reminds me of those 1960s LPs of "purple patches" from your favourite operas/ballets. Don't you feel that Holst - in many of his choral works - and Ravel - in "Daphnis" - did this sort of thing much more interestingly nearly a century ago, placed in much richer and more generous idiomatic contexts?

[pastoralguy]

I saw 'Death of Klinghoffer' (or at least least Act I) at ENO in 2012. It (or at least Act I) seemed far too dull to be operatic - more a third-rate oratorio posing as opera. Perhaps the visual aspect saves some from falling asleep? To date, the only live performance I've ever walked out of on account of life being too short.

Basically he's easy listening dressed up as classical. If you arranged (for example) several albums by Mike Oldfield for orchestra, you'd likely get as many classical bums on seats and as many gushing critics.

I suspect my experience was 'manipulated' by Claire Booth who was cast as the 'dancing girl'. I went through a phase when I was desperately in love with her...

[peterthekeys]

Adams's music reminds me of those 1960s LPs of "purple patches" from your favourite operas/ballets. Don't you feel that Holst - in many of his choral works - and Ravel - in "Daphnis" - did this sort of thing much more interestingly nearly a century ago, placed in much richer and more generous idiomatic contexts?

I love both Daphnis (which also would be on my Desert Island Discs list) and much of Holst's choral music (particularly the Hymn of Jesus and the Rig Veda hymns.) And as I said, I don't get on with a lot of Adams' music (I bought "El Nino" a few years ago, and have probably listened to it only about 3 times.) But "Harmonium" I just find absolutely original, and viscerally thrilling in a way that I've only found with a few other works (just mentioning it earlier left me with an unendurable itch to listen to it again - so I did.) Part of it is the harmonic style, which I find as instantly recognisable as that of Delius, Howells, Ravel, Messiaen, etc. (I think I'm a harmony junkie - all my favourite music has complex spicy harmonies.) There's one harmonic effect he uses which I love - he sets down a chord in first inversion (third in the bass) and then shifts the bass note up a semitone and back down - it seems to create a sense of almost oceanic darkness and depth (just my personal impression of course!) I think his command of the orchestra is as fine as that of Bax and Ravel.

[Belgrove]

Interesting dichotomy of opinion on this thread, which I have only just caught up with.

A boring and possibly inconsequential anecdote for you. Travelling on the East Coast railway line just the other day, I decided to play Harmonielehre to pass the time. Precisely as the arresting chords that initiate the piece boomed out on the headphones, ten huge revolving wind turbines suddenly filled the view from the train window. That juxtaposition of monstrous sight and sound sent a shiver up my spine, simultaneously thrilling and forbidding, and entirely in accord with Adams' dream that inspired the piece. I do not recall such a unexpectedly dramatic and unbidden emotional spontaneous response on hearing a few chords of music.

I'm rather ashamed to admit that Mozart has never provoked in me such a pulse quickening reaction.

[Bryn]

I had the privilege of attending a performance of Doctor Atomic at ENO in 2009. Adams' setting of Donne's sonnet, 'Batter my heart, three person'd God', is one of the greatest arias in opera; immense the genius that created it.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7fJRoKlCroU

Following this morning's Record Review coverage of the CDs of this work, I thought I would check out the availability of the two DVD releases. To my surprise, the Met production under Alan Gilbert seems so to have been withdrawn from the Sony catalogue and on now only to be found "used". I see the Youtube link quoted above is also no longer extant. The Met. production was, IIRC, a co-production with E.N.O., and was held, but at least some commentators, to be considerably superior to the orginal Sellars production. I have never taken to this work, to date. I will try streaming the BBC/Adams recording via QOBUZ, to find whether I get on with it any better without the visuals.

[Steerpike]

Interesting 45 mins interview with John Adams this morning on Radio 4 This Cultural Life

https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/m001z6pg

[Serial_Apologist]

Interesting 45 mins interview with John Adams this morning on Radio 4 This Cultural Life

https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/m001z6pg

Thanks for this - I'd have missed it otherwise.

[Simon Biazeck]

Interesting 45 mins interview with John Adams this morning on Radio 4 This Cultural Life

https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/m001z6pg

Thanks. I just listened on my noisy train trip to London. Very engaging. I was a little surprised that El Niño wasn't mentioned. (It may have been and didn't survive the edit, of course.) Perhaps it's not topical enough...?

I am not a natural enthusiast for his music, but he is such a personable man and I have fond memories of working with him on the world premiere of El Niño at the Châtelet in 2000 (I think). It received its first Met and live broadcast very recently, and I was delighted to find a video of one of our Châtelet performances. Great times.