Adams, John

[Lento]

Adams featured on this R4 programme today, which I haven't properly heard yet

http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b04fz4vq

Also on Armando Iannucci's interesting interview with Rob Cowan on Essential Classics today (Shaker Loops).

[Richard Barrett]

the effect this thread has had on me is that I think I ought to reacquaint myself with some of Adams' work today, just to be sure (or possibly even not).

I've just listened to CD8 of the "John Adams Earbox" (a more or less random choice) which contains the Chamber Symphony, three pieces from Hoodoo Zephyr, and Gnarly Buttons. I had expected the cartoonish textures, commonplace harmonic progressions, stylistic kleptomania and chugging, meandering forms, but what I hadn't expected was how unimaginatively orchestrated this music is... the first and third pieces bring in (somewhat scrawny-sounding) electronic keyboards to make up for what seems to be an inability or unwillingness on Adams' part to do anything interesting with the acoustic instruments individually or collectively, and the second piece is entirely for electronic keyboards, with probably the cheesiest low-budget-movie-like sounds and combinations I've ever heard outside straightforwardly commercial music. I just don't see what the attraction is... so I think that will have to be my last word on Adams for now.

[BBMmk2]

The piano ,music of JA, my favourites are Phrygian Gates and Hallelujah Junction!

[richardfinegold]

Time, for starters. It might be argued that there's nothing inherently immoral in doing so, but all time spent in such activity and in developing such skills is time away from composition which, of course, by no means involves only the time spent in writing down the notes. Technology has enabled composers to self-publish in a way that would have been well-nigh impossible not so long ago, but even just doing that and distributing their works (as distinct from doing the whole "marketing" bit) takes time away from the actual act of composition.

What Richard wrote is anything but nonsense and he ought to know better than most here of what he writes because he is himself a composer; I for one can well empathise with his desire not to "insult people" by indulging in this kind of thing, even if he wanted to (which obviously he doesn't).

That said, my largely unenthusiastic view of Adams' work is in no way influenced by his ability to market it successfully; it would be the same if he didn't or couldn't market it thus.

If I heard a radio announcement to the effect of:
"A new composition by _______________ will be performed by _________ on the date of ___________" I would not consider this an insult to the intelligence of the audience.
If that sentence was followed up by ,"The Composer has previously written the works ___________ which were performed by this Orchestra" I would not consider that an insult either.
Perhaps my threshold for feeling insulted is much higher. His bar seems to be set quite low.

[ahinton]

If I heard a radio announcement to the effect of:
"A new composition by _______________ will be performed by _________ on the date of ___________" I would not consider this an insult to the intelligence of the audience.
If that sentence was followed up by ,"The Composer has previously written the works ___________ which were performed by this Orchestra" I would not consider that an insult either.

Fair comment insofar as it goes but, once again, this is hardly an example of the kind of "marketing exercise" that Richard Barrett presumably had in mind when referring to his perfectly understdable desire - which I share - not to "insult people"!

[ferneyhoughgeliebte]

Fair comment insofar as it goes but, once again, this is hardly an example of the kind of "marketing exercise" that Richard Barrett presumably had in mind when referring to his perfectly understdable desire - which I share - not to "insult people"!

Nor is it an example of a "Living Composer" "self marketing" which rfg mentioned in #66, as a result of which I presumed that his comment about "Creative Artist[s] develop[ing] a Public Profile in the hopes that others may discover their works" in #91 (the one to which ahinton replied in #101) meant that he thought that self-promoting activities should be added this to his/her CV, rather than someone else basically reading out a CD label on a Radio programme. Richard Barrett addressed this point exactly in #96, as indeed did ahinton. The fact that two professional composers have answered in this way is significant.

[Richard Barrett]

If I heard a radio announcement to the effect of:
"A new composition by _______________ will be performed by _________ on the date of ___________" I would not consider this an insult to the intelligence of the audience.
If that sentence was followed up by ,"The Composer has previously written the works ___________ which were performed by this Orchestra" I would not consider that an insult either.
Perhaps my threshold for feeling insulted is much higher. His bar seems to be set quite low.

Yes, when I hear a living composer's name mentioned on the radio I reach for my revolver.

[ahinton]

Yes, when I hear a living composer's name mentioned on the radio I reach for my revolver.

Maybe when people hear mine so mentioned they might reach for theirs provided that they know in which direction to point them so as to ensure that it's no longer that of a "living" composer...

[Stanfordian]

I find John Adams's music extremely variable in quality. I think 'Nixon in China' is an excellent work and in 2012 at the Berlin Musikfest I attended a splendidly performed concert staging of 'Nixon in China' with a fine cast of soloists, the BBC Singers, the BBC Symphony Orchestra with John Adams himself conducting. The Berlin audience at the Philharmonie was only about half full; the least occupied I have ever seen the Philharmonie. On the other hand 'On the Transmigration of Souls' serving as a requiem to commemorate those who died in the terrorist attack on the centre, despite the honourable subject is one of a number of Adams’s works I find much less appealing.

[jayne lee wilson]

Obviously I agree with Stan about the quality of this music, and I think Adams' best work was done by the mid-1990s...

When I read fhg or anyone listing what they find lacking in the music, I think, well I'm sure you're right - but I just don't hear it - or listen to it - in that way. On a simple level I bring different ears, different "ears" "mind" and "heart" to different musics. Like a processor whose light indicates what sampling rate a file is, my listening-sensors start behaving differently according to what I'm hearing, and not just because of prior experience... (back to my Birtwistle image of "walking through a wood, calmly observant..")

Maybe composers (or Profs, which I've always taken fhg to be - we all know he's a real Pro anyway) will bring sterner standards, expectations...? or even creative prejudices...? (But of course there's MTT and Rattle etc. who enjoy it and play it, so...)

It's a pity when composers visit the Proms (Adams, Thursday night) they always bring latest works... I wonder what effect a potential roofraiser like Fearful Symmetries might have had (apart from driving some of you completely scat)... reviews & reports of the Sax Concerto don't look too promising, and too many of his recent works seem to have the signatures without the fresh, memorable ideas...
Pity too that RB chose to listen to CD8 of the Earbox - 1,2 and 6 are much stronger (well, for a fan...).

But it shouldn't be taken that to like some John Adams makes you an advocate, or indicates that a fan has any firm notion of his place or status historically. It's a luxury of being a musiclover of broad sympathies and open (at least initially uncritical) response - that we can pick and choose and take our pleasures without prejudice... and that contemporary composers need us more than we need them... or even ...

[Richard Barrett]

I find John Adams's music extremely variable in quality. I think 'Nixon in China' is an excellent work

OK, you're on, I'll give it a listen tomorrow.

[Richard Barrett]

On a simple level I bring different ears, different "ears" "mind" and "heart" to different musics.

As do we all I think. As for "creative prejudices": it wouldn't be much good if I weren't able myself to be as open-minded as I would expect listeners to my own work to be, and I don't think I have any prejudice against the sort of thing that Adams is doing, far from it; on the other hand, part of the (self-)"training" a creative musician must undergo is a process of developing and in particular individuating his/her "art of listening", since such a large part of composition is concerned with making music which expresses the way one hears things (and experiences them through other senses of course, and not only this...). So when I listened to Adams' Chamber Symphony one of my first thoughts was: this sounds like an unfocused and clumsy version of the ensemble arrangements of Nancarrow's player-piano studies as recorded by Ensemble Modern. What I'm hearing in Adams' work is not a style I don't enjoy, but what I perceive to be a watered-down realisation of a style I would really like to enjoy. In other words as far as I can I am indeed taking it on its own terms, with the appropriate "ears, mind and heart", but for me it actually fails on its own terms. I don't know if that makes sense to you, Jayne. Of course we can't all like everything.

[BBMmk2]

I see where your coming RichardBarrett. I havn't heard this work of JA's? recommended recordings?

[ferneyhoughgeliebte]

I havn't heard this work of JA's? recommended recordings?

Nixon in China do you mean, Bbm? A couple of recordings:

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Adams-Nixon-China-John/dp/B002N5KEHO/ref=sr_1_1?s=music&ie=UTF8&qid=1409765354&sr=1-1&keywords=nixon+in+china

http://www.amazon.co.uk/John-Adams-Nixon-China/dp/B000005IYW/ref=sr_1_2?s=music&ie=UTF8&qid=1409765354&sr=1-2&keywords=nixon+in+china

... if you mean the Chamber Symphony:

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Adams-Chamber-Symphony-Grand-Pianola/dp/B000005IZR/ref=sr_1_6?s=music&ie=UTF8&qid=1409765510&sr=1-6&keywords=john+adams%2C+chamber+symphony

The entire opera is available on youTube, if you wish to sample it before parting with pennies:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DXXmjR0aCug

(starts at 4 mins in)

... as is Chamber Symphony:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mXsfDTZF3ZA

... and junior:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XTJGX_iNjmE

[Stanfordian]

OK, you're on, I'll give it a listen tomorrow.

Hiya Richard Barrett, I think it greatly helped my concentration and enjoyment with 'Nixon in China', which is a longish work, to experience a live peformance.