Vaughan Williams, Ralph (1872-1958)

[Uncle Monty]

No.3 and 5 are a bit boring

Now, that's just taking the p!ss

[Uncle Monty]

Broadly in agreement with much that has been written about RVW's music. It is in good hands.
But most of us have come to love the symphonies and other works over a lifetime of listening having maybe only read about them initially when records were few and expensive in the 1950s, and concerts a bit thin on the BBC.
So please don't try to assimilate the whole lot in a short space of time; set some aside for later on, much later on. Let the music mature in the mind.

I echo the 'Wish I was starting out all over again.' How fortunate you are!

I think that's very sound advice. I know my exploration of RVW's music was halting and erratic, even though I was soon besotted with the bits I had got to grips with quite quickly, and even though I possessed box sets of his works. There are still works I want and need to engage with in greater depth. It's a lifelong thing, and there is the danger of OD'ing if you try to swallow the entire oeuvre whole!

[BBMmk2]

I think with other composer's music, RVWs included, there is a time in a person's life where you feel ready for a composition. Like life's experiences. A case in point when /sir charles mackerras had the experience of losing his daughter, he was able to understand Suk's Asrael Symphony better than he had before.

[Uncle Monty]

I think with other composer's music, RVWs included, there is a time in a person's life where you feel ready for a composition. Like life's experiences. A case in point when /sir charles mackerras had the experience of losing his daughter, he was able to understand Suk's Asrael Symphony better than he had before.

Yes, and you can have wonderful epiphanies when those times do come. At different stages in life I've suddenly "got" Wagner, Bruckner, Mahler, Webern and many others. Oh, joy! Oddly (or so it seems to me now) for a long time I could hear nothing in Brahms, but now he seems inexhaustible.

[Suffolkcoastal]

I first encountered RVW's music just after a period of emotional turmoil when I was 15, it was perfect timing, RVWs music gave me something to live for, the 5th symphony in particular was a life saver and is probably why it has been my favourite work of all for 30 years and will probably always remain so. I had 'problems' with Brahms & Bruckner for years but now like much of Brahms' music and am a great fan of Bruckner. Equally there are composers which I've now completely or partially gone off for example, Mozart which I'm now much less interested in though there are some works I still love (I now find Haydn far more satisfying), Mahler which I liked for a couple of years but most of whose music I cannot stand as I find it tedious and boring in the extreme, I'm going off Ravel somewhat, I partly blame R3, for the seeming continual playing of a select number of his works notably the Piano Concerto in G which I now switch off instantly. There are also composers such as RVW where one instantly falls in love with their music and the love for their music remains steadfast, others I include in this are Elgar (except for Gerontius), Holst, Moeran, Copland, Harris, Hanson, Barber, Martinu & Sibelius.

[3rd Viennese School]

Quote. Originally Posted by 3rd Viennese School
No.3 and 5 are a bit boring
Now, that's just taking the p!ss



Sorry Uncle monty. I've written that wrong.

No.3 and 5 are boring.

3VS


"The cows in the fields have been listening to Vaughan Williams again!"

[Uncle Monty]

Sorry Uncle monty. I've written that wrong.

No.3 and 5 are boring.

3VS

Heh heh, well, you're young, there's hope for you. We shan't give up on you. You will succumb eventually

[3rd Viennese School]

Of course, if you listen to the recap of the scherzo of no.5 you hear no.4 and no.6!

[Suffolkcoastal]

You must be listening to a different symphony!!! Recap of Scherzo? not exactly as it is variant of section A of course not a full recap it also continues to develop an idea derived from the trio which also derives from an idea in the 1st movement. Shows just how closely argued RVWs symphonies are. It is quite possible too that the 'trio chorale idea' actually supplies a lot of the material symphony (soemthing I'm looking into) it has origins along with an idea used in the 1st movement from RVW's music for the Pageant England's Green and Pleasant Land. There is a recording of these two extracts available too.

[Uncle Monty]

And there is always Stephen Johnson's dissection of the 5th Symphony to be heard at http://www.bbc.co.uk/radio3/discover...glibrary.shtml

[3rd Viennese School]

Yes. I mean Recap of scherzo just in a technical sense of the word. The bit after it slows down then gets going again.It's louder,the brass sounding like whats to come on no.6. incidently, that scherzo also develops onwards after the trio.

Anyone mentioned the planets yet? VW 6.
Mvt 1 Mars
Mvt 2 Saturn
Mvt 3 Uranus
Mvt 4 Neptune

3VS

[BBMmk2]

3VS, what, a connection between the VW6 and The Planets suite?

[Suffolkcoastal]

[QUOTE=3rd Viennese School;43154]Yes. I mean Recap of scherzo just in a technical sense of the word. The bit after it slows down then gets going again.It's louder,the brass sounding like whats to come on no.6. incidently, that scherzo also develops onwards after the trio.

Really? still listening to the wrong work I'm afraid. The developing scherzo rather than a literal recap is of course regularly employed by major symphonists. The 5th symphony is actually very tautly constructed and harmonically challenging in a very subtle way, whereas the 4th symphony challenges the tonality chromatically and by 4ths the 5th challenges it through a modal perspective. The Planets connection with No 6 has been talked about for many years. Yes I think there is a slight connection between the two, I've long thought that as the symphony was first started around the time of what would have been Holst's 70th birthday, memories of his close friend and his most famous work were in RVW's mind, structually they are different of course but in scoring and effect there is certainly a conscious allusion expecially in the last movement, a conscious allusion to Whitman's Unknown Region, a poet for whom they both shared a love?

[3rd Viennese School]

Symphony no.5 mvt 3 start. Thats Saturn isn't it?

3VS

[Suffolkcoastal]

I'm afraid its after 12 so your joke in the message above doesn't count!