Vaughan Williams, Ralph (1872-1958)

[Panjandrum]

As is Walford Davies? But sometimes I've seen his surname listed as only 'Davies'. That's not correctper se is it?

Strictly speaking that would not be correct. However, as an egalitarian, I am not in favour of double-barrelled surnames per se; they seem to me an absurd affectation. After all we each have two parents with discrete family names and, therefore, theoretically everyone could have two surnames, as in fact is the custom in Spain.

[kernelbogey]

Whoops. I meant No 5. I'm intuitive not sensate on my Myers Brigg Personality Indicator test.

Hey - terrific DB! What say we start an MBTI thread! It would be fascinating.
BW, kb (INFP)

[BBMmk2]

During the hay fever season, when the temperature is too high for confort, even in the shade, I listen to Sinfonia Antartica to cool down. Seriously, it really works.

I might try that myself EA! Hmmm and Sibelius's music too!

[EdgeleyRob]

RVW symphonies. Why not start at the beginning and work your way through 1 to 9. It's a very rewarding journey.
Then you can start on the operas.

[Auferstehen2]

RVW symphonies. Why not start at the beginning and work your way through 1 to 9. It's a very rewarding journey.
Then you can start on the operas.

Good question, but the simple answer is that I was told not to! The friendly folk on these boards suggested an easy way in to a VW newcomer might be No 2 followed by No 5, and as I said in message 40, unless otherwise advised, this is what I'll probably do. No 1 apparently, is a mite tough.

Incidentally, in message 15 I asked whether Vernon Handley is a good interpreter of these works - is the answer, "As good as any other British conductor"?

Best wishes,

Mario

[Eine Alpensinfonie]

No 1 apparently, is a mite tough.

No, it isn't. It's a glorious celebration of the sea with luscious music and moving poetry by Walt Whitman. It's 70 minutes long, but with such beautiful music, who cares. But don't take my word for it. Judge for yourself (and the Handley is a good performance).

[Op. XXXIX]

It's a glorious celebration of the sea with luscious music and moving poetry by Walt Whitman. It's 70 minutes long, but with such beautiful music, who cares.

Glorious indeed. I remember hearing a performance on the radio and thinking at several junctures, VW must certainly have been familiar with Elgar's choral writing. (Not a criticism, just an observation.)

[Eine Alpensinfonie]

Glorious indeed. I remember hearing a performance on the radio and thinking at several junctures, VW must certainly have been familiar with Elgar's choral writing. (Not a criticism, just an observation.)

VW himself admitted that the "cribbed" a phrase from "The Dream of Gerontius" and used it extensively in A Sea Symphony. He believed that imitation was the sincerest form of flattery.

[salymap]

I have a very special 10 inch LP of the RVW no 6 Symphony with Boult and the LSOwith a wonderful sleeve in gold and red with royal coats of arms and Nipper the dog in the middle. Only Rob and smittims can explain it to me as it was an odd recording, done with another orchestra when the scherzo was rewritten. It is a fantastic performance and my favourite of this symphony. BLP 1001 for those that like numbers!

[Suffolkcoastal]

The real achievement of RVW's symphonies for me is how he tackles symphonic form and how different and often original the response is to the form in each of his symphonies. The 8th & 9th symphonies contain two highly original movements, the 1st of the 8th with its 'Variations in search of a theme; and the double movement finale of the 9th. RVW always manages to successfully solve the 'finale' problem which has been the bane of symphonic composers since Beethoven, a look through RVW's varied symphonic finales shows just what an achievement they are. I become more convinced with each day that he is not only this country's greatest symphonist but also one of the greatest symphonists of all time.

[salymap]

I wish RVW knew what people feel about his music now as, unlike some composers, he was always so modest about his achievements and ready to ask for opinions and suggestions from other professionals.

[Panjandrum]

I wish RVW knew what people feel about his music now as, unlike some composers, he was always so modest about his achievements and ready to ask for opinions and suggestions from other professionals.

I wonder whether VW actually did himself any favours with this gentleman amateur persona. His operas, in particular, have languished at least in part due to the association with fps given by rather mediocre amateur theatrical type productions. Actually, I tend to think it was all a bit of an act anyway. Of Pilgrim's Progress, he said something like "they won't like it, but it's what I meant", so he certainly never lacked for self confidence.

[Auferstehen2]

RVW always manages to successfully solve the 'finale' problem which has been the bane of symphonic composers since Beethoven, a look through RVW's varied symphonic finales shows just what an achievement they are. I become more convinced with each day that he is not only this country's greatest symphonist but also one of the greatest symphonists of all time.

Wow! High praise indeed! In that case, I can't wait to get through VW's entire symphonic output! You know Suffolkcoastal, this is such a wonderful subject for a thread discussion! You've set me thinking - did Mahler, or Bruckner, etc, struggle to find a satisfactory finale? Then I looked at your personal profile, and thought, who am I to disagree with a composer?

I am going to think about many symphonies' finales today and see where it gets me!

Mario

[Suffolkcoastal]

I hope you find RVW as inspirational as I do Mario. He has long been and will probably always will be my favourite composer. The 'symphonic finale problem' would make an interesting subject for a thread. I think the RVW finales work so well because they perfectly sum up the whole work and are so deeply satisfying as a result they all subtely draw on thematic material from earlier in the given work. The main idea in the eerie pianissimo finale of no 6 for example is derived from the main idea of the 2nd subject group in the 1st movement.

Best wishes
SC

[Uncle Monty]

Happy to echo all that, Sc. It wasn't until I practically bankrupted myself to get Lionel Pike's book on the symphonies, and took time to understand it properly, that I began to realise with my head what my heart had already told me, i.e. the scale of RVW's achievement, and the incredible craftsmanship and artistry. Gentleman amateur, indeed!

RVW almost never takes the easy option of the big ending, does he? You get very quick applause from a crash-bang finish, but he doesn't do that. I see that as integrity, and ultimately a firm belief in the validity and value of what he was doing, no matter how modest his demeanour about his work and the flutteriness about every significant new piece that led him to beg his friends to listen and comment before performance.