Vaughan Williams, Ralph (1872-1958)

[Auferstehen2]

No 6 has always been my favourite from its first performance, which I think I attended, one of them anyway.
I know and love all the others,in no particular order,up to no 6, but the last three symphonies have always given me problems as the reviews and comments that the 'old boy' should have stopped at 6 and had 'gone off' were widespread and I believed them for a time. It must have been hard for RVW to keep composing at that time.

Oh no salymap! Being an impressionable sort of chap who really HAS to listen to the advice of vastly more experienced music lovers such as your good self, I’ve now somewhat coloured my judgement of the last three symphonies before I’ve even heard a single note of them! Would you be offended if I desperately hang on to Panjandrum’s Message 14? He describes the coda of the 9th most enticingly!

Thanks,

Mario

[Petrushka]

Oh no salymap! Being an impressionable sort of chap who really HAS to listen to the advice of vastly more experienced music lovers such as your good self, I’ve now somewhat coloured my judgement of the last three symphonies before I’ve even heard a single note of them! Would you be offended if I desperately hang on to Panjandrum’s Message 14? He describes the coda of the 9th most enticingly!

Thanks,

Mario

Fear not, Mario. Salymap talks of a view of RVW that was widespread in the mid to late 1950's. 7 & 9 are easily my favourites alongside No 6 and 9 was, indeed, the first of them I heard in concert. No 7 may have had the music taken from the film but it is about much more than Scott of the Antarctic. To some degree all of the symphonies, except perhaps the 8th, have about them an air of tragic heroism that finds its ideal expression in the 7th and is possibly coloured by RVW's experiences in the First World War.

[Ferretfancy]

salymap,

I understand what you mean about the last 3 VW symphonies, but I went to the first London performance of No. 8, and won't forget seeing the old man shuffle onto the platform. I've also been lucky to journey to the Antarctic, and believe me if you are standing on the deck of an icebreaker pushing through the sea ice, or visiting Scott's hut, the music of the Antartica rings through your head! The ninth is a bit of a puzzle, because I don't understand the often quoted association with Hardy's Tess of the D'Urbevilles, but it does have a grim fascination.
If I had to pick a favourite it would be No. 3, especially in Previn's beautiful recording.

[Uncle Monty]

I agree with the poster who said Mario was to be envied as he starts out on his voyage of RVW discovery!

My own route to a love, appreciation and understanding of his works was a very haphazard, circuitous one. (Later on, I went about educating myself in Mahler in a much more methodical fashion, and I feel I didn't waste so much time.) A hint here, an overheard comment or recommedation there, and so on. I got there in the end -- that makes it sound like hard work, but it wasn't, not for a moment, though Symphony 4 came as a bit of a shock at first! -- but I wish I had had the benefit of all your advice 40-odd years ago!

For what it's worth, I would always start with the sublime 5th, closely followed by the 3rd, but don't put off tackling the Sea Symphony, even if it's just the first movement. But they're all wonderful.

People have mentioned Job, and the Wasps (not just the Overture, the whole suite). I feel that is seriously underrated. And chamber pieces like the Phantasy Quintet, and perhaps the Oboe Concerto, are incredibly atmospheric. But really, as they say, "it's all good". Well, I could live without The Running Set if pushed, but that's about it.

[salymap]

Morning Mario, No it was the critics of the time who were at fault, also the public who believed them for a time.
The problem with myself is that I went to many concerts where the first six or maybe seven were played but haven't been to a London concert for some years now because of age and health, mostly. I have the Haitink boxof the complete symphonies, however, and promise to catch upon them soon.

Completely off topic, do/did you know Remo Lauricella, who I believe came from Malta? Augener published one or two of his works and he came to my office quite often. A nice man.

[Panjandrum]

People have mentioned Job, and the Wasps (not just the Overture, the whole suite). I feel that is seriously underrated. And chamber pieces like the Phantasy Quintet, and perhaps the Oboe Concerto, are incredibly atmospheric. But really, as they say, "it's all good". Well, I could live without The Running Set if pushed, but that's about it.

Then of course it will be time to move on to the Piano Concerto, Five Tudor Portraits, the song cycles "On Wenlock Edge", "Ten Blake Songs" and "Songs of Travel" and the string quartets. Oh, and then there's the operas.

[Uncle Monty]

I have the Haitink boxof the complete symphonies, however, and promise to catch upon them soon.

saly, do listen to the 8th over your morning coffee, it's a little gem, and won't take up too much of your time

In his usual pretending-to-be-an-old-buffer way, RVW described it as "Seven variations in search of a theme", but whatever it is, it's good-natured and lyrical, with some unique orchestration right from the beginning.

Also, Haitink's Antartica and London are right up there with the very best on record.

[Uncle Monty]

Then of course it will be time to move on to the Piano Concerto, Five Tudor Portraits, the song cycles "On Wenlock Edge", "Ten Blake Songs" and "Songs of Travel" and the string quartets. Oh, and then there's the operas.

Definitely. And without wishing to be thought a one-tune completist bore, I'm desperate to hear "Mr Isaac's Maggot" on cd :cool2:

[salymap]

Uncle Monty. I have played 8 and 9 in the past but they haven't 'stuck' in my memory/mind like the others yet. I always preferred a live concert, not to be any more I'm afraid. Bestwishes, saly

[Auferstehen2]

Morning Mario, No it was the critics of the time who were at fault, also the public who believed them for a time.
The problem with myself is that I went to many concerts where the first six or maybe seven were played but haven't been to a London concert for some years now because of age and health, mostly. I have the Haitink boxof the complete symphonies, however, and promise to catch upon them soon.

Completely off topic, do/did you know Remo Lauricella, who I believe came from Malta? Augener published one or two of his works and he came to my office quite often. A nice man.

Good afternoon to you too salymap, and warmest greetings from a morning sun in the Med to die for!

Almost tempted to join the British tourists happily swimming, staring at us local wussies for not diving in and joining them. We’re right of course – the water is cold, with today’s sea temperature being a freezing 15C! When it reaches 24C in the summer, then yes!

Instead, holding my dear wife’s hand for a walk along the sun-kissed seafront, I listened on my iPhone to the dying strains of the ending of VW’s 2nd Symphony. Having lived and worked in London for some 34 years, the “Englishness” of the music brings back very many, very happy memories. I am so pleased to have taken the plunge (pun intended) with VW, which was why I was so disappointed when Hornspieler persuaded me to try Walton, finding his second symphony a pretty banal affair. I hope I haven’t offended any Walton fans out there, even though I do recognize my stupidity in judging a composer after just one work. What if I had given up on my beloved Beethoven after I had heard that dire Wellington job?

I’m rambling again.

Over the weekend, after watching the Welsh and the English fight it out, I shall move onto VW’s 5th, as advised. Incidentally, shouldn’t the surname be hyphened, and is it true, as a retired British Naval Officer over here once told me, that his first name is not pronounced “Ralph”, but “Raif”?

Best wishes,

Mario

PS Sorry salymap, I forgot to reply regarding Remo Lauricella. No, I've never heard of him, but wikipedia tells me he was born in London, his parents hailing from Catania, Sicily. He was first violinist for the LPO, apparently.

[barber olly]

I have the Haitink boxof the complete symphonies, however, and promise to catch upon them soon.

Whilst I wouldn't necessarily choose Haitink's performances over Boult, paricularly the Decca 2,3,5, Job and Wasps, Barbirolli EMI 2 & 5, I really like the fact that having long relationships with London orchestras embraced the VW repertoire, unlike notable others eg Abbado, Muti, Boulez and going further back Klemperer, Monteux and Dorati. Karajan dabbled with Tallis but not the symphonies. Americans Previn and Slatkin have given us creditable sets. A surprising Brit with little VW catalogue is Colin Davis.

[Eine Alpensinfonie]

During the hay fever season, when the temperature is too high for confort, even in the shade, I listen to Sinfonia Antartica to cool down. Seriously, it really works.

[Uncle Monty]

I'm not holding my breath, obviously, but I wonder what a VW cycle by the Berlin Phil would be like?!

It is time Rattle got a grip and did himself and possibly us a favour by engaging with the great man's music. Whence the RVW-deafness?

I think I'll email him and ask him that very question

I mean, I have no trouble admiring Mahler, the VS2, Brahms and RVW in the same breath. What's it all about, Alfie?

[Panjandrum]

Definitely. And without wishing to be thought a one-tune completist bore, I'm desperate to hear "Mr Isaac's Maggot" on cd :cool2:

I wouldn't hold my breath for that one. It would be nice, however, if EMI restored the incomparable John Fletcher's performance of the tuba concerto to circulation.

Incidentally, shouldn’t the surname be hyphened, and is it true, as a retired British Naval Officer over here once told me, that his first name is not pronounced “Ralph”, but “Raif”?

Mario, your naval friend was correct that Ralph should be pronounced "Raif". In his younger, more svelte days, VW was known as "Ralph the Waif" in fact. Alas, this epithet could no longer be applied as the years rolled by. The practice of hyphenating a double-barrelled surname is optional. David Lloyd George is another example of an unhyphenated double- barrelled name.

[Op. XXXIX]

David Lloyd George is another example of an unhyphenated double- barrelled name.

As is Walford Davies? But sometimes I've seen his surname listed as only 'Davies'. That's not correct is it?