Webern

[verismissimo]

For a long time I've loved Webern's music - complex but spare. But it's always been a work here, another there.
Now I've invested in Sony's 3 CD set of his complete opus numbers (ie without the unopused remainder). I like the fact that I can listen to it in chronological order - songs cheek by jowl with orchestral, cantatas, string quartets etc. All seemingly in excellent performances by Boulez, Juilliard SQ, Heather Harper, Rosen etc.
I've decided to listen to it a bit per day - so today is op 1 through 5. Bewitching!

[Eine Alpensinfonie]

For a long time I've loved Webern's music - complex but spare. But it's always been a work here, another there.

Better this way than by saturation, but you've realised this by...

I've decided to listen to it a bit per day - so today is op 1 through 5. Bewitching!

[visualnickmos]

For a long time I've loved Webern's music - complex but spare. But it's always been a work here, another there.
Now I've invested in Sony's 3 CD set of his complete opus numbers (ie without the unopused remainder). I like the fact that I can listen to it in chronological order - songs cheek by jowl with orchestral, cantatas, string quartets etc. All seemingly in excellent performances by Boulez, Juilliard SQ, Heather Harper, Rosen etc.
I've decided to listen to it a bit per day - so today is op 1 through 5. Bewitching!

[Roehre]

I have got that set as it appeared in 1978 as 4LP-set on CBS.
The accompanying book's last page states: This is part 1 of the 2 volume series. (volume 2 never appeared )
It was worn out by the time it appeared as a 3CD set on Sony and replaced it with the CDs.
CDs 1 and 3 always accompany me on my holidays in the Alps (together with the Quartetto italiano string quartets on Philips).

Boulez did make an [almost] complete Webern on 7 CDs on DGG.
I personally prefer these to the CBS/Sonys, but as the CDs are work groups orientated, it is only possible to listen to the works chronologically by changing CDs, or only within the songs, the quartets, the orchestral works etc.

whatever, op.1-31 or the "complete" Webern, it will give you (IMVHO) endless joy

[verismissimo]

No accompanying booklet with the CDs, Roehre.
But I did invest in Malcolm Hayes's biography ahead of time.

[Roehre]

No accompanying booklet with the CDs, Roehre.
But I did invest in Malcolm Hayes's biography ahead of time.

May I suggest Moldenauer's biography too?

[verismissimo]

May I suggest Moldenauer's biography too?

May well get that in due course, Roehre... Thanks.

[Roslynmuse]

I wonder if someone can help clear up a bit of a mystery for me. Thirty years ago I went to a concert in Liverpool given by the RLPO under David Atherton and they performed as the opening item in a very odd programme (Mozart Piano Concerto 21 with Fou T'song and Tchaikovsky Symphony No 2) what I have always remembered (probably incorrectly) as being called Three Orchestral Pieces - early works, obviously without opus number. I got hold of the 7CD set earlier this year and despite what seems pretty comprehensive coverage there's nothing that matches these pieces. My memory could be playing me false, and I haven't got easy access to programmes from that date, but I do remember that R3 broadcast Atherton's complete Webern from the South Bank the previous December (1983) and once upon a time I had a tape of those pieces made then. I've been unable to find any other reference to these pieces from a quick internet trawl. Can any of you knowledgeable folk point me in the right direction?

[CallMePaul]

No accompanying booklet with the CDs, Roehre.
But I did invest in Malcolm Hayes's biography ahead of time.

I would recommend Kathryn Bailey's biog ahead of Malcolm Hayes's. Bailey had access to sources not used by Hayes, especially Webern's 2nd daughter Marie, and is far better on the composer's political views and she does not mince her words about the composer's "execution". Hayes relied very heavily on Hans Moldenhauer's biography, which is based on the author's friendship with Webern's eldest daughter Amalie. Most other authors have peddled the old stories about Webern's death as an accident and glossed over political views that they found inconvenient (despite his music being banned by the Nazis, Webern was certainly a sympathiser with the régime and made no attempt to emigrate even though he would have had no problem finding lucrative conducting work).

[CallMePaul]

I wonder if someone can help clear up a bit of a mystery for me. Thirty years ago I went to a concert in Liverpool given by the RLPO under David Atherton and they performed as the opening item in a very odd programme (Mozart Piano Concerto 21 with Fou T'song and Tchaikovsky Symphony No 2) what I have always remembered (probably incorrectly) as being called Three Orchestral Pieces - early works, obviously without opus number. I got hold of the 7CD set earlier this year and despite what seems pretty comprehensive coverage there's nothing that matches these pieces. My memory could be playing me false, and I haven't got easy access to programmes from that date, but I do remember that R3 broadcast Atherton's complete Webern from the South Bank the previous December (1983) and once upon a time I had a tape of those pieces made then. I've been unable to find any other reference to these pieces from a quick internet trawl. Can any of you knowledgeable folk point me in the right direction?

I think that the piece you heard may have been the 3 Orchestral Pieces (op 6) by Alban Berg.

[Roslynmuse]

I think that the piece you heard may have been the 3 Orchestral Pieces (op 6) by Alban Berg.

No, definitely not! I know the Berg well. I also remember the Atherton Webern Festival clearly and was pleased to get a tape of these rarities in advance of the Liverpool performance. These pieces were for a smallish orchestra and lasted perhaps 6 minutes maximum (maybe even less).

[Serial_Apologist]

No, definitely not! I know the Berg well. I also remember the Atherton Webern Festival clearly and was pleased to get a tape of these rarities in advance of the Liverpool performance. These pieces were for a smallish orchestra and lasted perhaps 6 minutes maximum (maybe even less).

On the day Radio 3 broadcast Webern's entire oeuvre, a couple of years ago, included were Four Pieces for Large Orchestra and Three Orchestral Songs, both from 1913, neither Opussed, which as happens I taped. I think Bouilez was conducting, and could check tomorrow if you like. I well remember being surprised at the bulky character of the music, for that period in Webern's output.

[Roehre]

No, definitely not! I know the Berg well. I also remember the Atherton Webern Festival clearly and was pleased to get a tape of these rarities in advance of the Liverpool performance. These pieces were for a smallish orchestra and lasted perhaps 6 minutes maximum (maybe even less).

If Webern, than three of the 11-odd pieces composed from which the 5 pieces opus 10 were selected are candidates.
Alternatively the three pieces for orchestra which Schönberg composed at approximately the same time (1911/'13) have got to be considered.
A third possiblillity is a performance of the Symphony op.21 in the reconstructed three movement version, but that would have taken some 13 minutes to perform.

[Roslynmuse]

If Webern, than three of the 11-odd pieces composed from which the 5 pieces opus 10 were selected are candidates.
Alternatively the three pieces for orchestra which Schönberg composed at approximately the same time (1911/'13) have got to be considered.
A third possiblillity is a performance of the Symphony op.21 in the reconstructed three movement version, but that would have taken some 13 minutes to perform.

The first sounds the most likely - they were definitely not Schönberg or the Webern Symphony. So, possibly an arbitrary selection by Atherton himself which would explain why I have never seen them listed anywhere else. I'll have a listen again to what on the DGG set is described as Five Pieces for Orchestra (1913) and see if I can identify them after a 30 year time gap! Many thanks.

[Bryn]

A few decades ago, quite possibly somewhere around the same time as your Atherton concert, Radio 3 presented a "Complete Webern" series which included some very obscure items indeed. Some of them were omitted from the more recent Radio 3 Webern event as they had since been identified as arrangements of others' work. I have some of the earlier broadcasts on cassette. Not tonight, but I will see what I can to re. digitizing them when I get the time.