George Lloyd, anyone?

[Pabmusic]

I find that his capacity to disappoint rather than wholly engage is rather too prevalent...

I do agree, and with every other sentiment of your post.

[teamsaint]

I think Caliban has incorrectly got me down as a George Lloyd nut !!


ER loves the music. AH finds things to enjoy , and some virtue. That is good enough recommendation for me.

In any case, I do feel that at times the world of classical music (tin hat on) has a habit of valuing the performer too highly compared with some of the composer, and that is a balance that can usefully be addressed by things like Lloyd as COTW.

[Nick Armstrong]

I think Caliban has incorrectly got me down as a George Lloyd nut !!

Ooops... was I thinking of Simpson...?

[teamsaint]

Ooops... was I thinking of Simpson...?

Simpson is a GL nut?!

Arnold or Bliss perhaps?

(just getting to grips with Simmo !!)

[Pabmusic]

I assume that fans will have heard this:

http://downloads.bbc.co.uk/podcasts/radio4/dida91/dida91_19950423-1115a.mp3

[Nick Armstrong]

Simpson is a GL nut?!

Arnold or Bliss perhaps?

(just getting to grips with Simmo !!)

[Stanfordian]

Can you describe his conducting, Stanfordian? Was he functional (Adrian Boult-sh), florid, expressive, more than just competent? I'm rather fascinated by composers' conducting of their own work. I've seen Britten in the flesh (operas) and there's that wonderful film of Stravinsky doing Firebird. I suppose Boulez must be the master. Pity Mahler was pre-movie-with-sound. Anyone else have first-hand experiences?

When I saw George Lloyd conducting I didn't really paid that much attention to his conducting style back then. But I recall he was certainly functional and not the highly expressive type. He seemed highly competent and certainly didn’t look like a novice considering he would not have had the breadth of conducting experience as the typical professional conductor. In truth I don’t suppose that the BBC Philharmonic, who had been honed under Edward Downes, really needed much direction. I have a feeling that owing to the very technical challenges of the many contemporary works that the Phil were used to playing at that time they may have found the Lloyd works a breath of fresh and relatively undemanding. I know that post traumatic stress will effect people in different ways and I was aware that he had had considerable trouble in this area following his war service but I remember being stuck just how on the outside he looked calm and confident. He looked like a genial man and I also recall his shock of silver grey hair and how trim he looked.

[ahinton]

I assume that fans will have heard this:

http://downloads.bbc.co.uk/podcasts/...0423-1115a.mp3

I heard it when it was broadcast originally and I'm puzzled about what this rights issue business is to which Kirsty Young refers in the intro to it; many thanks for posting the link - I've enjoyed listening to it again (apart from that penny-dreadful bit of the 4th symphony that rather bears out what I wrote earlier about my reservations concerning that work!).

[Sir Velo]

I heard it when it was broadcast originally and I'm puzzled about what this rights issue business is to which Kirsty Young refers in the intro to it

For regulatory reasons, most classical music podcasts offered by the BBC are only permitted to contain limited musical extracts.

[ahinton]

For regulatory reasons, most classical music podcasts offered by the BBC are only permitted to contain limited musical extracts.

Thanks for that - but I wonder why?

[Sir Velo]

It goes back to when, as part of the original Beethoven Experience, the BBC offered free music downloads of all nine symphonies. The 1.4 million downloads which resulted was met with anger from the major classical record labels who considered it unfair competition and "devaluing the perceived value of music". As a result, no further free downloads have been offered and the BBC Trust ruled out any classical music podcasts with extracts longer than one minute.

[ahinton]

It goes back to when, as part of the original Beethoven Experience, the BBC offered free music downloads of all nine symphonies. The 1.4 million downloads which resulted was met with anger from the major classical record labels who considered it unfair competition and "devaluing the perceived value of music". As a result, no further free downloads have been offered and the BBC Trust ruled out any classical music podcasts with extracts longer than one minute.

Fair enough, of course (and again thanks for this information); the reason that I wondered about it centres on that free use business that plagues many of us when it's widely abused; perhaps BBC doesn't have the means - and/or is unwilling - to pay for such things as it ought otherwise to be expected to do.

[aeolium]

joy of joys, next week we escape from the ghastly mediocrity of this "British" music month...

.. o, just looking forward to next week, when I see we have a grown-up composer, Ravel, as Composer of the Week

If instead of "British" here we had some other European nation, or indeed a musical style such as "post-war serialist", these sort of comments would be readily dismissed as insular and uttered with a large degree of ignorance of the music being described. Since the comment is about British music, it is treated imv unduly leniently, particularly as the month in question has featured music by inter al Byrd, Tallis, Gibbons, Purcell, Elgar, Vaughan Williams, Walton, Tippett and Britten as well as more minor composers particularly from the last century including rarely heard works by composers like Elisabeth Lutyens. To dismiss all this as "ghastly mediocrity" is more than just sweeping, but frankly crass. It is one thing to dislike a musical idiom (though to comprehend an entire nation's music with all the different styles in that dislike is strange) but something else to use this as the basis of a qualitative assessment. I suspect I will never love Liszt's music despite years of trying but I would never dismiss it as worthless simply because of my inability to respond to it, and I am always keen to read posts about his music from those who are enthusiastic (like Jonathan). And I always enjoy reading the comments about unfamiliar British music from those like Suffolkcoastal (and ahinton's helpful post on this thread) who clearly know the music well.

As to the merits of having a month-long focus on British music, I don't see why this should be of concern especially as there have been plenty of slots in the schedule - TtN, Lunchtime concert, Po3 for instance - where non-British music has been broadcast: it hasn't been like one of those composerthons. If one were in the Czech Republic, or Hungary, or Finland it would not excite surprise if the national broadcaster included music from minor composers not well known outside their home country - on the contrary, it would be surprising if they were not broadcast. That's not to deny the international nature of classical music - and the great majority of music broadcast on R3 is quite properly non-British - but only to recognise that music, like literature and visual art, will not escape some imprint of the national culture in which it was created.

As to Ravel as next week's CotW, I believe some of his works at least regularly come near the top of the list of the most frequently broadcast works during the year on R3. So if it is a matter of choosing between listening to perhaps the 200th or 250th broadcast this century of La Valse next week, or listening on iplayer to a very rare broadcast of a fairly recent British work such as the Daniel Jones symphony no 8 (probably its first broadcast since 1979), I'll be choosing the latter. Mr Jones is quite grown-up enough for me.

[Pabmusic]

If instead of "British" here we had some other European nation, or indeed a musical style such as "post-war serialist", these sort of comments would be readily dismissed as insular and uttered with a large degree of ignorance of the music being described...(etc)

A really good post. You are so right. Even when we had the (admittedly ill-conceived) Schubert-fest I don't recall posts arguing that the music wasn't worth it. Yet that's what is being suggested here - somehow this British (why was that in quotes?) music just isn't real music. Presumably that's because it's British, for that's the thing the composers had in common. I wonder how seriously we'd take a comment such as "I don't read novels written by women; let's get back to a grown-up male writer".

[vinteuil]

I wonder why British music is seldom taken seriously outside these shores?

Of course there are exceptions. Personally I love Dowland, Purcell, Byrd, Tallis, Dunstaple, Gibbons, Pelham Humfrey. I don't like Elgar or Vaughan Williams, nor particularly Tippett or Britten, but I recognize the respect with which they are held by people whom I respect.

But the others we have been offered this month? Where but in Britain would anyone be interested?