Well, today's CotW was an excellent background to his time in Paris. The fact that he was an admirer and friend of Meyerbeer puts a slightly different slant on the anti-semitic thing that most detractors go on about. Wagner was something of a socialist and didn't like kow-towing to the nobs....so good for him. Anyway, whatever one thinks of him as a person, he is a towering and seminal figure in the development of musical language. Even if we're getting the R3 saturation treatment (carpet bombing?) at the moment, CotW is very much worth a listen if today's programme is anything to go by.
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It was remarked that Wagner later turned against Meyerbeer, mind. -
Does it??!! So, when he wrote about the involuntary repellence possessed for us by the nature and personality of the Jews, so as to vindicate that instinctive dislike which we plainly recognize as stronger and more overpowering than our conscious zeal to rid ourselves thereof ... the peculiarities of the Jewish mode of speaking and singing come out the most glaringly in the commoner class of Jew, who has remained faithful to his fathers' stock, and though the cultured son of Jewry takes untold pains to strip them off, nevertheless they shew an impertinent obstinacy in cleaving to him he just forgot to add "not that I'm a racist or nuffin': some of my best friends are Jewish"? It's not his "detractors" who "go on about" his anti-semitism, but the composer himself, publishing in 1850 the vilest most toxic tract that any Musician of standing has ever produced, and returning to it twenty years later.Originally posted by ardcarp View Post
Wagner kow-towed to anyone who could fund his work and lifestyle, and rebelled against anyone who got in his way. He later described Bayreuth as an Anarchist society - because everyone was doing everything that he wanted them to do for him with no favourites!Wagner was something of a socialist and didn't like kow-towing to the nobs....so good for him.
Absolutely - the man was a septic little shite, but the composer had one of the most astonishing imaginations that thec species has ever produced.Anyway, whatever one thinks of him as a person, he is a towering and seminal figure in the development of musical language.[FONT=Comic Sans MS][I][B]Numquam Satis![/B][/I][/FONT]Comment
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How would you feel about the music / its place in musical history if you didn't know all that?Comment
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I honestly don't know, DracoM; "all that" is so indelibly staining my attitude to the man that I can't put it aside. But I still adore the Music, I'm still astonished and moved by it.Originally posted by DracoM View Post[FONT=Comic Sans MS][I][B]Numquam Satis![/B][/I][/FONT]Comment
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Personally, interesting though these relationships are, I have found that this week's "Composer of the Week" has had not enough Wagner and too much of Bellini, Meyerbeer etc..but I accept I may well be in a minority with that view, and that for some there has been way too much of his music these last few days.
I am looking forward to hearing the original small ensemble version of the lovely "Siegfried Idyll" on tomorrow's show.
Patriotism is supporting your country all the time, and your government when it deserves it.
Mark Twain.Comment
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...and we had some Palestrina today. It's all the influences I suppose.not enough Wagner and too much of Bellini, Meyerbeer etc..Comment
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..."Wagner aside from being one of the greatest geniuses whoever lived was a thoroughly bad hat indeed"Originally posted by ferneyhoughgeliebte View Post
W H Auden 1969
I could never quite place you Ferney ......Comment
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Much more eloquently put than my own summary - I could've been a poet, but I lacked the Latin.Originally posted by antongould View Post
Join the club! Probably more of the "bad hat" than the "genius", but not so "thorough".I could never quite place you Ferney ......[FONT=Comic Sans MS][I][B]Numquam Satis![/B][/I][/FONT]Comment
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I though today made some excellent points about Liszt's influence - in fact, over the years I've come to appreciate just how much RW owes to the abbe...Comment
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