COTW - Film muzac

[Eine Alpensinfonie]

I didn't know that! The things you learn on here!

I may have got it slightly wrong. When Barbirolli returned to England from New York in 1943' he took Howard's place, and landed in Britain safely. LH had wanted to postpone his return, but his plane, a few days later, was shot down.

[teamsaint]

Spot on, Alpen. And likewise with JW's music as we are hearing this week; it is a treat to hear it without the visuals. It is dissapointing to hear the same snobbish attitude to film music here that has persisted since the days of Korngold.

But then when a number of posters seem to take pride in the fact that they never go to the cinema, one wonders just how narrow their boundaries are......

Speaking for myself , Mr Pee, I don't take pride in never going to the cinema . I just don't go, because I don't tend to enjoy the Hollywood stuff that is on at my local cinema, I don't enjoy the experience,(blood Diamond being a perfect example for me) and I have a lot of other worthwhile things to do with my time and money.
You don't have to watch movies to have broad horizons. I know plenty of people who watch plenty of movies who might be thought to have rather narrow "boundaries". But then who am I to judge them?

[Paul Sherratt]

Of course yer proper classical tunes only work for most folk when they're alongside an image or two.


( Retreats back under blanket )

[Thropplenoggin]

Speaking for myself , Mr Pee, I don't take pride in never going to the cinema . I just don't go, because I don't tend to enjoy the Hollywood stuff that is on at my local cinema, I don't enjoy the experience,(blood Diamond being a perfect example for me) and I have a lot of other worthwhile things to do with my time and money.
You don't have to watch movies to have broad horizons. I know plenty of people who watch plenty of movies who might be thought to have rather narrow "boundaries". But then who am I to judge them?

[doversoul1]

It is dissapointing to hear the same snobbish attitude to film music here that has persisted since the days of Korngold.

This tells you more about what you think about film music than what you think others do. Film music is a form of art in its own right and should be appreciated as it is, not as if it were a branch of classical music.

Is there any point in in-depth discussion about film music without visual reference?

P.S. Don’t they compose music like the theme tune (I think) from Orfeu Negro or the song that Jeanne Moreau sang in Jules et Jim anymore?

[Flosshilde]

Spot on, Alpen. And likewise with JW's music as we are hearing this week; it is a treat to hear it without the visuals. It is dissapointing to hear the same snobbish attitude to film music here that has persisted since the days of Korngold.

But then when a number of posters seem to take pride in the fact that they never go to the cinema, one wonders just how narrow their boundaries are......

Surely the whole point about film music is that it's written to accompany 'the visuals'? It's written to help create a mood, or set a scene. If it's worth listening to in its own right it has become too dominant in the context of the film, too distracting. Good film music should be part of the whole & not too obvious (I'd go as far as to say it should be unmemorable). If it's good enough to be heard in the concert hall it's not good film music. Film music, especially in modern films with rapid changes of scene, is going to be episodic - rather unsatisfying to hear independently.

I think the 'snobbish' attitudes to film music actually derive from those who, since Korngold, have insisted that it's good enough to stand alongside music written for independent performance. If the film composers want their music played independently why don't they write independent music?

[Mr Pee]

Surely the whole point about film music is that it's written to accompany 'the visuals'? It's written to help create a mood, or set a scene. If it's worth listening to in its own right it has become too dominant in the context of the film, too distracting. Good film music should be part of the whole & not too obvious (I'd go as far as to say it should be unmemorable). If it's good enough to be heard in the concert hall it's not good film music. Film music, especially in modern films with rapid changes of scene, is going to be episodic - rather unsatisfying to hear independently.

I think the 'snobbish' attitudes to film music actually derive from those who, since Korngold, have insisted that it's good enough to stand alongside music written for independent performance. If the film composers want their music played independently why don't they write independent music?

Oh well, I'd better stop listening to Operas without the visual aspect then.

[Flosshilde]

It took a surprisingly long time for someone to mention opera. I think the difference between opera & film music is that opera can't exist without music - the music isn't there to support whatever else is happening, it is what's happening. The characters sing, & their music is integral to the whole. It would be perfectly possible to watch a film without the music (even a film that has had music written for it) without losing anything.

[doversoul1]

Oh well, I'd better stop listening to Operas without the visual aspect then.

I thought someone would come up with this argument. With opera, it is the music that tells the story, whereas film music accompanies the story in the background. That is why listening to opera can make sense. How effective the staging is is another matter.

[ed.] oops, too late (this is like Classical Music Association thread).

[Pabmusic]

Surely the whole point about film music is that it's written to accompany 'the visuals'? It's written to help create a mood, or set a scene. If it's worth listening to in its own right it has become too dominant in the context of the film, too distracting. Good film music should be part of the whole & not too obvious (I'd go as far as to say it should be unmemorable). If it's good enough to be heard in the concert hall it's not good film music. Film music, especially in modern films with rapid changes of scene, is going to be episodic - rather unsatisfying to hear independently.

I think the 'snobbish' attitudes to film music actually derive from those who, since Korngold, have insisted that it's good enough to stand alongside music written for independent performance. If the film composers want their music played independently why don't they write independent music?

I think you've used a very narrow definition of film music here. True, if music is there just to create atmosphere, you may well have a point, but surely music can be much more than that? Opera and incidental music for plays show us that fine music can come out of the least promising of things; film music should not be restricted to the purely functional. I don't have a problem with film music, but there is a large amount of routine dross out there obscuring some real gems.

[doversoul1]

I think you've used a very narrow definition of film music here. True, if music is there just to create atmosphere, you may well have a point, but surely music can be much more than that? Opera and incidental music for plays show us that fine music can come out of the least promising of things; film music should not be restricted to the purely functional. I don't have a problem with film music, but there is a large amount of routine dross out there obscuring some real gems.

Yes, film music can be a very fine thing and can be listened to and enjoyed independent of the film for which it was originally composed. A lot of ‘standard’ popular songs and music are in fact theme tunes from films. The question I am asking is, is Composer of the Week the right place for it? And my answere is NO.

[Pabmusic]

Yes, film music can be a very fine thing and can be listened to and enjoyed independent of the film for which it was originally composed. A lot of ‘standard’ popular songs and music are in fact theme tunes from films. The question I am asking is, is Composer of the Week the right place for it?

Oh, I agree - have a separate week-long film music 'festival', but if you can't provide a week of one composer, don't hijack COTW.

[Flosshilde]

I think you've used a very narrow definition of film music here. True, if music is there just to create atmosphere, you may well have a point, but surely music can be much more than that? Opera and incidental music for plays show us that fine music can come out of the least promising of things; film music should not be restricted to the purely functional. I don't have a problem with film music, but there is a large amount of routine dross out there obscuring some real gems.

That's the point, though, isn't it? The music is incidental, not integral. The atmosphere can be created through the cinematography & acting. I don't see how film music can have anything other than a supporting function - how many people go to see a film for the music?

I think it would be interesting to have a history of film music - from its origins as accompaniament to silent films - & why films, generally, have music while plays, generally, don't.

[Pabmusic]

...I think it would be interesting to have a history of film music - from its origins as accompaniament to silent films - & why films, generally, have music while plays, generally, don't.

Now that's a good idea.

[ferneyhoughgeliebte]

Flossie and dovers points are valid for a large proportion of films, but the best film scores transcend this mere "background" effect: in a documentary devoted to Herrmann (who did write some very good concert pieces as well as his CotW-worthy film scores) the car scene from Psycho was shown without Music. This was a very dull 10 minutes. Then again with those strings - the hairs shivered down my spine!

Similarly with Scott of the Antarctic: the Music - unobtrusively, surreptitiously - created the tone of the film, giving those "stiff-upper-lip" performances a genuine depth of courage.

That sort of film Music is worthy of general praise and discussion. I don't like Williams' scores, but even giving him as much benefit of the doubt as I possibly can, too much of his music seems to me to be very "one-size fits all": the ET theme JLW cites could be swapped with the Music that accompanies Superman flying with Lois Lane; the dinosaurs in Jurrasic Park interchangeable with the Jaws theme. Fine for general purpose, and for the contexts they serve, but I can't take them away from those contexts.