COTW - Film muzac

[Herrmannesque]

I think Herrmann concedes too much. Good film music has most of the things anybody could want from music - great orchestration, melody, rythm and emotion. If it was as worthless as the snobs on here think it is why do they imagine so many good composers have tried their hand at it?

You all want to think that 500 years of Western art music is such a delicate flower with so little inherent appeal to a wider public that its threatened by 5 hours of John Williams then you and it are very badly off indeed!

I wasn't conceding I was trying to have a constructive dialogue. Unfortunately, I probably ended up just confirming Serial_Apologist's prejudices against film music. But then, as he admitted he didn't even bother listening to the programme I suspect those prejudices are well-entrenched. Which was precisely my point originally.

[Serial_Apologist]

I wasn't conceding I was trying to have a constructive dialogue. Unfortunately, I probably ended up just confirming Serial_Apologist's prejudices against film music. But then, as he admitted he didn't even bother listening to the programme I suspect those prejudices are well-entrenched. Which was precisely my point originally.

No no no no - I can't be having that.

There seems to be a pattern emerging: supporters of John Williams being COTW making unsubstantiated claims.

[Herrmannesque]

No no no no - I can't be having that.

There seems to be a pattern emerging: supporters of John Williams being COTW making unsubstantiated claims.

I'm not a great admirer of John Williams but at least I listened to him before reaching that judgement. You, on the other hand, seem to have made a prior decision not to listen to the programme because of your preconceived attitude to film music which you seem to be singularly ill-informed about. That is prejudice, plain and simple!

[Serial_Apologist]

I'm not a great admirer of John Williams but at least I listened to him before reaching that judgement. You, on the other hand, seem to have made a prior decision not to listen to the programme because of your preconceived attitude to film music which you seem to be singularly ill-informed about. That is prejudice, plain and simple!

Yes I have a preconceived attitude to film music. No I don't think it is all bad. All right?

[french frank]

I just object to the idea that film music has no place on Radio 3.

Well, no one actually said that. But one test of whether a composer's film music should be singled out for a CotW might be: is this composer's music regularly played on Radio 3? Or in this case, does, predominantly, an audience for a Spielberg/Williams film also enjoy listening to Radio 3's output?

Occasionally we get a composer whose work centred on one single genre, Verdi, for instance; but in that case operas and Verdi do get routine outings on Radio 3 - they're what Radio 3 does. But Radio 3 doesn't normally scout around for composers - you might cite Paul McCartney - whose music is otherwise seldom played on Radio 3. The fact that it isn't played on Radio 3 says nothing about its quality or that Radio 3 is being 'snobbish' for not playing it. Merely that such music has other outlets, whereas classical music has few. Or one.

Jazz musicians and jazz have sometimes featured on CotW. But Radio 3 broadcasts jazz: that is also what Radio 3 does.

[Herrmannesque]

Yes I have a preconceived attitude to film music. No I don't think it is all bad. All right?

So generous of you to believe not all film music is bad, just most of it. I'm sorry to hear that someone who presumably considers themselves musical has preconceived attitudes to something they know little about.

[MrGongGong]

So generous of you to believe not all film music is bad, just most of it. I'm sorry to hear that someone who presumably considers themselves musical has preconceived attitudes to something they know little about.

I guess you haven't met our "academic" colleague from Derbyshire then ?

[Serial_Apologist]

So generous of you to believe not all film music is bad, just most of it. I'm sorry to hear that someone who presumably considers themselves musical has preconceived attitudes to something they know little about.

I didn't put stress on the word "all".

[Herrmannesque]

Well, no one actually said that. But one test of whether a composer's film music should be singled out for a CotW might be: is this composer's music regularly played on Radio 3? Or in this case, does, predominantly, an audience for a Spielberg/Williams film also enjoy listening to Radio 3's output?

Occasionally we get a composer whose work centred on one single genre, Verdi, for instance; but in that case operas and Verdi do get routine outings on Radio 3 - they're what Radio 3 does. But Radio 3 doesn't normally scout around for composers - you might cite Paul McCartney - whose music is otherwise seldom played on Radio 3. The fact that it isn't played on Radio 3 says nothing about its quality or that Radio 3 is being 'snobbish' for not playing it. Merely that such music has other outlets, whereas classical music has few. Or one.

Jazz musicians and jazz have sometimes featured on CotW. But Radio 3 broadcasts jazz: that is also what Radio 3 does.

So Jazz which has very little to do with classical music is in but film music (and lets leave John Williams out of it, shall we?) which at least shares a common history with classical music is out. How very consistant of you! And as you think film music is on a level with Paul McCartney (a man who cannot even write a note without outside help) snobbish would seem to be the right word for it!

By the way, tell me what other outlets within the BBC do you think cater to good film music? None is the answer!

[french frank]

So Jazz which has very little to do with classical music is in but film music (and lets leave John Williams out of it, shall we?) which at least shares a common history with classical music is out. How very consistant of you! And are you seriously comparing good film music with Paul McCartney a man who cannot even write a note without outside help? Snobbish is the right word for it!

So be it. Did you overlook the argument that Radio 3 is not only a classical music station - it has regular jazz programmes. Hence it is appropriate that CotW sometimes covers jazz even if many jazzmen couldn't write a note of music. They could play it.

[Herrmannesque]

So be it. Did you overlook the argument that Radio 3 is not only a classical music station - it has regular jazz programmes. Hence it is appropriate that CotW sometimes covers jazz even if many jazzmen couldn't write a note of music. They could play it.

Fortunately, it's not you who determines what is played or not played on R3 since the BBC had the good sense to close down all the message-boards. As Adorno said of jazz - classical music needs defending from it's devotees. He could have been thinking of people like you! It's about time you realised the BBC is a publicly funded organisation and not a vehicle for the whims of a few. If that's what you want set up your own broadcasting organization in the private sector!

[Plebgate]

Calm down, dears! Am I allowed to say I really enjoyed the John Williams programmes? I must say I feel rather alienated by all this. I don't feel my musical tastes have a place on Radio Three and don't feel like coming back. But, each to their own, I suppose. Me - I think I'll stick to the CDs!

[french frank]

Fortunately, it's not you who determines what is played or not played on R3 since the BBC had the good sense to close down all the message-boards. As Adorno said of jazz - classical music needs defending from it's devotees. He could have been thinking of people like you! It's about time you realised the BBC is a publicly funded organisation and not a vehicle for the whims of a few. If that's what you want set up your own broadcasting organization in the private sector!

Well, I think I'm probably ill advised in responding. But if you read my Msg #140, I've not expressed an opinion at all: I've merely offered some discussion points and stated some facts: that Radio 3, factually, covers jazz and that the station is not simply a classical music station. I'm pleased about that. I also stated what might be a rationale for what is on CotW, not what should be.

[french frank]

May I also point out, for the benefit of all, the House Rule that says that members should only operate one account?

http://www.for3.org/forums/showthread.php?2957-Terms-and-Conditions

" Members are allowed one account only. If members are found to be using more than one account, the first one registered will be allowed and all subsequent ones deleted."

And so to bed ...

[Herrmannesque]

Why the "So be it" in response, then? But, I think I'm probably ill advised in responding further as well. Except to say I too am pleased that R3 is not just a classical music station. Long may it continue to broaden its horizons. I want the music I love to gain a wider hearing and anything which attracts the uninitiated to it is good by me. Personally I'm sick and tired of attending concerts where I'm surrounded by white, middle-aged or indeed aged people (which includes myself, now I think of it!)