CotW - John Adams

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  • Tapiola
    Full Member
    • Jan 2011
    • 1690

    CotW - John Adams

    Not wanting to hijack a thread on the performance of Nixon in China I thought I would start one here.

    I have never got on well with John Adams' music.

    As "minimalist" in a very elastic definition of the word, I have always found him less immediate than the best Glass and Reich (that being their earlier work). Adams represents a dilution of these composers' best work.

    As a technician - as someone who knows how to write for instruments, and how to combine - he is very impressive.

    As music, his pieces, to me, lack soul and heart (unlike, again the best Glass and Reich (think "Einstein", "Come Out", "It's Gonna Rain")).

    Despite the often controversial and highly emotive subject matter of his operas, the music itself is without real human engagement or warmth. It is all surface glitter and superficial, without real depth.

    His sense of drama is formulaic and one-dimensional.

    As a composer he is highly over-rated.

    (FWIW, I do not rate most of what Glass and Reich have done - compared to their earlier work - for the last 30 years or so (and I include, for example, the desperately boring "Desert Music" by Reich)).

    Any thoughts?
    Last edited by Tapiola; 05-09-12, 22:25.
  • Nick Armstrong
    Host
    • Nov 2010
    • 26572

    #2
    Just one. That I wholly agree with you.

    (cf 'Nixon' thread. Just back from the hall. )
    "...the isle is full of noises,
    Sounds and sweet airs, that give delight and hurt not.
    Sometimes a thousand twangling instruments
    Will hum about mine ears, and sometime voices..."

    Comment

    • jayne lee wilson
      Banned
      • Jul 2011
      • 10711

      #3
      Huge fan of John Adams!

      I've always responded instinctively to his earlier more lyrical utterances like Shaker Loops, the gorgeous choral Harmonium, Common Tones in Simple Time or the tiny gem of Tromba Lontana. Nor do I find the clangorous knock-you-for-six pomp rock of Grand Pianola Music anything but great fun (if it got people leaving the hall in disgust once, there has to be something good about it). Later favourites would include Part 2 (Soledades) of El Dorado, the Violin Concerto and Chamber Symphony. Less sure about the later, more grandly ambitious symphonic structures like Naive and Sentimental Music. I think Nixon in China is a masterpiece (though it seems wrong to weigh its endlessly fresh invention down with such a term).

      But as I said I just have a gut feeling, an affinity with it - like being "in a light aircraft, flying rather fast, close to the ground" as Rattle described listening to Adams. "In all of his best pieces, there's a mixture of ecstasy and sadness", Rattle says, adducing the Chaconne from the Violin Concerto, the end of Harmonium, Act 3 of Nixon...

      Comment

      • Bryn
        Banned
        • Mar 2007
        • 24688

        #4
        I concur with the views expressed here by jlw, but if one is determined not to engage with Adams's muse ...

        Oh, and as for Glass and Stravinskyan borrowings (borrowing from a magpie ), Adams easily outGlasses Glass in the arpeggiated sections of Nixon in China.

        Comment

        • Nick Armstrong
          Host
          • Nov 2010
          • 26572

          #5
          Originally posted by Bryn View Post
          ... but if one is determined not to engage with Adams's muse ...




          I was so determined not to engage I went to the Prom in the hope that said muse might be revealed under the baton of the man himself....
          "...the isle is full of noises,
          Sounds and sweet airs, that give delight and hurt not.
          Sometimes a thousand twangling instruments
          Will hum about mine ears, and sometime voices..."

          Comment

          • Tapiola
            Full Member
            • Jan 2011
            • 1690

            #6
            Originally posted by Caliban View Post




            I was so determined not to engage I went to the Prom in the hope that said muse might be revealed under the baton of the man himself....
            Nicely put, Mr C.

            The usual Bryn-ism of "if you don't like what I like, you are the one with cloth ears and at fault"

            Comment

            • Bryn
              Banned
              • Mar 2007
              • 24688

              #7
              Originally posted by Tapiola View Post
              ... Any thoughts?
              (Just so long as they are not contrary to those expressed by Tappy.)

              Comment

              • aka Calum Da Jazbo
                Late member
                • Nov 2010
                • 9173

                #8
                robust rebuttal by Adams today of the 'fast food' denigration .... European modernism pretty much lost its audience and very nervous and American music robust and accessible ... must say inclined to agree with Mr Adams even tho his work can leave me both yawning and happy clapping ... enjoyed the pieces today ..

                [discussion is from about 8' 15" in to the programme]
                According to the best estimates of astronomers there are at least one hundred billion galaxies in the observable universe.

                Comment

                • Tapiola
                  Full Member
                  • Jan 2011
                  • 1690

                  #9
                  Originally posted by Bryn View Post
                  (Just so long as they are not contrary to those expressed by Tappy.)
                  Poor show "Brynny", if not disingenuous. I'd expected better from you. You've been remarkably reticent on the Nixon in China thread.

                  Comment

                  • Bryn
                    Banned
                    • Mar 2007
                    • 24688

                    #10
                    Originally posted by Tapiola View Post
                    Poor show "Brynny", if not disingenuous. I'd expected better from you. You've been remarkably reticent on the Nixon in China thread.
                    As in http://www.for3.org/forums/showthrea...882#post201882

                    and the later comment re. having to await the appearance of the HD Sound version on the iPlayer's Listen Again facility. I listened to some of the latter (Act I and the start of Act II) while driving to and from work today. Rather more incisive performance than those currently available on CD, I thought. Plenty of emotional depth in the interplay between the main characters too, but then, I have not had too much of a problem engaging with Adams's muse since first encountering Christan Zeal and Activity, courtesy of Brian Eno's Obscure issue which I bought (on release) mainly for the Hobbs and Bryars. I'm not so fond of Ceiling/Sky or El Nino, but that's perhaps just my, rather than Adams's problem.

                    Comment

                    • Tapiola
                      Full Member
                      • Jan 2011
                      • 1690

                      #11
                      Predictable.

                      Originally posted by Bryn View Post
                      I'm not so fond of Ceiling/Sky or El Nino, but that's perhaps just my, rather than Adams's problem
                      Don't put yourself down so much. We are all human, even Adams. Learn to love yourself, man.

                      Any chance of a decent critique on the music from you ever, a la jlw, for example?

                      Comment

                      • Bryn
                        Banned
                        • Mar 2007
                        • 24688

                        #12
                        Originally posted by Tapiola View Post

                        Any chance of a decent critique on the music from you ever, a la jlw, for example?
                        I doubt it. Not in her league re. critical writing.

                        Comment

                        • Tapiola
                          Full Member
                          • Jan 2011
                          • 1690

                          #13
                          Originally posted by Bryn View Post
                          I doubt it. Not in her league re. critical writing.
                          For once, we agree.

                          And a rare display of humility. Embrace it.

                          Comment

                          • Bryn
                            Banned
                            • Mar 2007
                            • 24688

                            #14
                            Originally posted by Tapiola View Post
                            For once, we agree.

                            And a rare display of humility. Embrace it.
                            Feel better for that, do you? That's good.

                            Comment

                            • Tapiola
                              Full Member
                              • Jan 2011
                              • 1690

                              #15
                              Originally posted by Bryn View Post
                              Feel better for that, do you?
                              You obviously don't.

                              Comment

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