Composer of the Week - any thoughts on the format?

[pilamenon]

I know Donald Macleod always seems to get a good press here, and it may be heretical to suggest this, but would anyone like a bit of a change?

Not for me, thanks. I love the format of the programme - the biographical narrative, the presentation, the occasional guest expert/composer, and the variety. It is always such a pleasure to have on. And as Donald McLeod surely won't going on doing it for that much longer, I'd be grateful if any changes could wait until then.

And if next week's programme on Delius is the one broadcast about three years ago, then do listen out for the final episode, one of the most moving I've heard.

[JFLL]

But the programme is an illustrated talk, not a concert.

In that case, it would be more useful to have shorter excerpts (passages) illustrating the points being made -- something like Stephen Johnson does well, I think, and which Anthony Hopkins did superbly. But it seems to me that this highlights one of the drawbacks of the programme. How do you illustrate a biographical fact, except by saying, for example, 'this is the piece Schubert wrote just after he'd been diagnosed with syphilis' -- and it could well be a merry little German waltz? I'm sceptical about biography having much to say of importance about music, as you'll have gathered.

Another person I should have mentioned as someone capable of putting on a good CoW is Gerald McBurney. In fact a whole string of them, covering every singleRussian composer!

[Serial_Apologist]

I'm sceptical about biography having much to say of importance about music, as you'll have gathered.

Computers capable of composing music without human agency have I understand been developed, so you will be in good company.

[JFLL]

Computers capable of composing music without human agency have I understand been developed, so you will be in good company.

I don't quite see how that's relevant, SA, apart from the rhetorical point.. Art can be produced by a self doing its best to overcome that self, and you could say that was the hallmark of great art. Computers don't have selves to overcome.

[doversoul1]

Art can be produced by a self doing its best to overcome that self, and you could say that was the hallmark of great art. Computers don't have selves to overcome.

…but composers do and that is what Donald Macleod tells so well with usually aptly selected work by the subject of his talk.

[Serial_Apologist]

The self seeking to overcome the self has been likened to washing off blood with blood. I can't remember now which Zen master thought up the analogy, but he was spot on - though I recognise that raising this this has an indirect relationship to the question of whether the ratio of biography to musical content on COTW is too balanced one way or the other.

[JFLL]

…but composers do and that is what Donald Macleod tells so well with usually aptly selected work by the subject of his talk.

Can't agree, DS. 'Tells' says it all – it's a 'story'. DM has little usually to say about the overcoming of the self and the distillation of experience into art (perhaps because it resists factual analysis). I think biography is a very blunt instrument, and can be positively misleading.

SA: And Schopenhauer, too (the old plagiarist! )

[vinteuil]

I think biography is a very blunt instrument, and can be positively misleading.

Yes. Bergson and Proust have taught us the difference between the moi superficiel and the moi profond. The former can be the interesting subject for gossip and biography; it doesn't necessarily bear much relationship with the latter, which is the source of the work of art. - Discuss.

[JFLL]

it doesn't necessarily bear much relationship with the latter, which is the source of the work of art. - Discuss.

I have, I have, vinteuil, in many an undergraduate essay!

[Flosshilde]

Originally Posted by JFLL
I'm sceptical about biography having much to say of importance about music, as you'll have gathered.

Originally Posted by Serial_Apologist
Computers capable of composing music without human agency have I understand been developed, so you will be in good company.

I don't quite see how that's relevant, SA, apart from the rhetorical point.. Art can be produced by a self doing its best to overcome that self, and you could say that was the hallmark of great art. Computers don't have selves to overcome.

But 'the self doing its best to overcome that self', besides being, I would have thought, impossible, is still influenced by that self's history & experience (its biography, in other words), which is what creates the 'self'. Agreed that some artists are more influenced, explicitly or implicitly, by their life experience in creating their work than others, but even in the latter case the circumstances of the work's creation (ie who the artist was employed by, where they were living at the time, etc) can be interesting & can add to an appreciation of their art. And vinteuil's example of Proust shows that great art can be produced by an artists doing nothing more than drawing on his own self.

[Serial_Apologist]

But 'the self doing its best to overcome that self', besides being, I would have thought, impossible, is still influenced by that self's history & experience (its biography, in other words), which is what creates the 'self'. Agreed that some artists are more influenced, explicitly or implicitly, by their life experience in creating their work than others, but even in the latter case the circumstances of the work's creation (ie who the artist was employed by, where they were living at the time, etc) can be interesting & can add to an appreciation of their art. And vinteuil's example of Proust shows that great art can be produced by an artists doing nothing more than drawing on his own self.

Bien dit!

[vinteuil]

vinteuil's example of Proust shows that great art can be produced by an artists doing nothing more than drawing on his own self.

... I think there is a leetle bit more to Proust's œuvre than "doing nothing more than drawing on his own self"!

[JFLL]

But 'the self doing its best to overcome that self', besides being, I would have thought, impossible,.

Self-abnegation may be difficult, perhaps impossible, to attain (short of nirvana), but so may perfect goodness, and just as the saint attempts to attain goodness, so does the artist aim to overcome the self, in my view. It's the attempt that's important, and what I suspect drives great artists. I agree that 'the circumstances of the work's creation …. can be interesting & can add to an appreciation of their art', but I don't think they should be regarded as an explanation. DM's emphasis on external life-events may even hinder an explanation. How could Beethoven's rather squalid circumstances explain the late quartets, or Wagner's private life his music-dramas?

[Flosshilde]

... I think there is a leetle bit more to Proust's œuvre than "doing nothing more than drawing on his own self"!

Oh, absolutely, & I should have been a bit more clear & expansive (but not perhaps as much as Proust ). What I meant to suggest was that Proust bu on his 'self', ie his biography, but that that was the foundation of his great work - he didn't try to overcome his 'self', nor ignore or negate it.

[Flosshilde]

Self-abnegation may be difficult, perhaps impossible, to attain (short of nirvana), but so may perfect goodness, and just as the saint attempts to attain goodness, so does the artist aim to overcome the self, in my view. It's the attempt that's important, and what I suspect drives great artists. I agree that 'the circumstances of the work's creation …. can be interesting & can add to an appreciation of their art', but I don't think they should be regarded as an explanation. DM's emphasis on external life-events may even hinder an explanation. How could Beethoven's rather squalid circumstances explain the late quartets, or Wagner's private life his music-dramas?

I think that the above relates more to the Romantic idea of the genius artist than to the reality of most artists - great or not - & is, with all due respect, utter tosh.

As for your final question, Wagner's private life has a great deal to do with his music-dramas, & I would refer you to 'Richard Wagner; last of the Titans', by Joachim Kohler (http://www.amazon.co.uk/Richard-Wagn...3826373&sr=1-1) for more details.