Composer of the Week - any thoughts on the format?

[JFLL]

I think that the above relates more to the Romantic idea of the genius artist than to the reality of most artists - great or not - & is, with all due respect, utter tosh.

Well, utter tosh or not, it's what many nineteenth century artists believed, and it's no accident, in my view, that much of the best music we have comes from that period. When artists stopped believing it, with the advent of modernism, music took a nosedive. And what is the 'reality' of most artists? Their everyday life or their inner life?

As for your final question, Wagner's private life has a great deal to do with his music-dramas, & I would refer you to 'Richard Wagner; last of the Titans', by Joachim Kohler (http://www.amazon.co.uk/Richard-Wagn...3826373&sr=1-1) for more details.

Oh, I don't doubt it has 'to do with it' in a Donald Macleodish sort of way, but that's what I was questioning. But it looks as though we're not going to agree on this, and phrases like 'utter tosh' don't much contribute to the discussion.

[Flosshilde]

it's what many nineteenth century artists believed, and it's no accident, in my view, that much of the best music we have comes from that period. When artists stopped believing it, with the advent of modernism, music took a nosedive.

Which artists? The ones who painted scenes from daily life, including their daily life? And what do you mean by 'the best music'? When sweeping claims like that are made you are on very shaky ground. Are you dismissing all pre-nineteenth century music?

Oh, I don't doubt it has 'to do with it' in a Donald Macleodish sort of way, but that's what I was questioning. But it looks as though we're not going to agree on this, and phrases like 'utter tosh' don't much contribute to the discussion.

I've no idea what you mean by 'Donald Macleodish', but the book I referred you to makes a very convincing case that the roots of Wagner's works can be found in his childhood circumstances, including a rather complex family history, and that his complicated romantic attachments also had their influence. You might like to think that the work is created in an aura of purity disassociated from the person creating it, but artists are living people creating living work, not saints attempting to attain goodness. The idea that they are trying to negate their 'self' is bizarre, as it is the 'self' that creates the work.

Artists are not gods, not saints, not angels - they are people like the rest of us. They eat & s**t like the rest of us. That's what makes their art so remarkable.

[Dave2002]

I agree with the poster who said that there was too much biography in COTW, as a general point. The other day, DM uttered his disappointment that little was known about Schubert's (lack of) love life. Personally, I couldn't care less for this sort of trivia. While we're at it, a plea for more period instrument performances (where appropriate) and complete works.

It would be interesting to know whether Schubert had a love life. It's easy to assume that because he apparently died of syphillis that he must have had. One could of course ask "what does that have to do with music?", but in Schubert's case with so many song settings there might be some interest in knowing whether he himself had emotions, and whether these were grounded in his own experiences. Perhaps, however, in an analogous way to the person in the Chinese Room, he could express emotion without feeling it himself.

[John Skelton]

with the advent of modernism, music took a nosedive.

http://neb.frikafrax.com/wp-content/uploads/nose_dive01.jpg

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6X7E2i0KMqM

[Rowan Tree]

I am not a regular here and, as I cannot get the first of his links to download, I do not know if Mr Skelton is citing the Schwitters excerpt on youtube as confirmation or rejection of the statement-"with the advent or modernism, music took a nose dive".
For me Schwitters is a genius and the youtube excerpt a work of great beauty. For those who agree with me I would strongly recommend Christopher Fox's " MERZsonata" on the Metier cd " You,Us,Me" which most movingly quotes Schwitter's work; indeed the whole of the disc is a delight.

[ferneyhoughgeliebte]

Well, utter tosh or not, it's what many nineteenth century artists believed, and it's no accident, in my view, that much of the best music we have comes from that period. When artists stopped believing it, with the advent of modernism, music took a nosedive.

I presume that the second sentence here is also "in (your) view, JFLL?

In my view the second sentence is also "utter tosh".

[vinteuil]

Oh, absolutely, & I should have been a bit more clear & expansive (but not perhaps as much as Proust ). What I meant to suggest was that Proust bu on his 'self', ie his biography, but that that was the foundation of his great work - he didn't try to overcome his 'self', nor ignore or negate it.

... but, Flossie, isn't the whole point of Contre Sainte-Beuve that Proust rejected the biographical approach - Sainte-Beuve becoming for Proust the personification of a false view of art - Sainte-Beuve's famous 'method', which consisted in interpreting works of literature by reference to the external features of a writer's biography, - his philistine, worldly, patronising approach ( "nice fellow, Baudelaire, perfectly correct manners") which disqualified him as a judge of truly original artists... ?

[John Skelton]

For me Schwitters is a genius and the youtube excerpt a work of great beauty.

Completely agree - I love Schwitters .

[Flosshilde]

... but, Flossie, isn't the whole point of Contre Sainte-Beuve that Proust rejected the biographical approach - Sainte-Beuve becoming for Proust the personification of a false view of art - Sainte-Beuve's famous 'method', which consisted in interpreting works of literature by reference to the external features of a writer's biography, - his philistine, worldly, patronising approach ( "nice fellow, Baudelaire, perfectly correct manners") which disqualified him as a judge of truly original artists... ?

Ah, well, it was my understanding that there were strong biographical influences in À la recherche du temps perdu, but no doubt I'm wrong. I would agree that interpreting, & judging, a work of art only through reference to the artist's life is limited, but not that the artist's life is seperate from & independent of their art & is therefore irrelevant.

[vinteuil]

it was my understanding that there were strong biographical influences in À la recherche du temps perdu,.

o of course there are! But Proust argues that the biographical approach does not help in understanding what the artist is doing - that at an important level the artist's life is indeed 'separate from and independent of' the art.

Which of course has not stopped hordes of critics and commentators using Proust's own 'life' as an explanation of his 'work' - notoriously George Painter...

[umslopogaas]

#55 vinteuil, why is Painter's biography "notorious"? Notorious for what? Its a long time since I read it, but I recall at the time thinking it was a fine piece of work and something of a tour de force. Of course, there will be more, but surely Painter gave future scholars a tremendous help? It seemed to me when I read it to be a fairly dispassionate, objective yet sympathetic scan of the life and work. It didnt disguise Proust's less pleasant aspects, but neither did it allow them to detract from his achievement - which is incomparable.

[vinteuil]

umslopogaas - it is indeed a tour de force, and I remember enjoying it immensely back in the 1970s. The problem with it is that it sees A la recherche as an autobiography; he uses the book to interpret Proust's life, and he uses what he was able to find out about Proust's life to interpret the book. Very tempting, and it produces a satisfying read. But dangerous and unreliable - the book is not an autobiography, and you can't use it to fill out aspects of Proust's life for which there isn't other evidence - and equally you can't use what we know of Proust's life to 'explain' A la Recherche - whose importance is as a work of art - as Proust himself would say, the biography can get at the moi superficiel but not at the moi profond which is what, ultimately, A la Recherche is about.

If you're looking for a good (more recent, more reliable, more scholarly, very readable) biography of Proust I wd recommend Jean-Yves Tadié's 'Marcel Proust', available in French and English.