Wagner and the king

[JasonPalmer]

Today's cotw looks interesting...

https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/m001006n

King Ludwig seem only too eager to bankroll Wagner’s grand ambitions, but how long can he turn a blind eye to his hero’s flaws? Presented by Donald Macleod.

This week, Donald Macleod follows Wagner on his decades-long journey to realise his dream of building his own music theatre, and establishing a festival there dedicated to his music. We see how Wagner’s revolutionary ideas and vaulting ambition struggled against the reality of securing supporters, raising finances, and inspiring audiences.

Today: it appears that Wagner has found the ideal patron in King Ludwig II of Bavaria. The young monarch is a passionate admirer of Wagner’s music and has the resources to realise all of Wagner’s grand plans. However, Ludwig’s ministers are suspicious about Wagner’s motives and, soon, rumours of a scandalous affair threaten to derail everything.

[smittims]

From what I've read about Ludwig, he had no difficulty turning a blind eye to Wagner's flaws; he seems to have lived in an unreal world of his own.

Have you see the famous film, with Trevor Howard wonderful as Wagner (apart form being too tall, of course)?

[JasonPalmer]

Not sure, did see some dramatisation featuring Wagner once but don't remember who played who.

Edit,,,watched some YouTube clips and yes, I have seen Ludwig, a long time ago though.

[RichardB]

There's already an active Wagner thread, what's the point of this new one?

[Ein Heldenleben]

From what I've read about Ludwig, he had no difficulty turning a blind eye to Wagner's flaws; he seems to have lived in an unreal world of his own.

Have you see the famous film, with Trevor Howard wonderful as Wagner (apart form being too tall, of course)?

In fact the Kings relationship with Wagner was a good deal more complex and the King knew where the boundaries lay and usually ensured RW didn’t overstep the mark. Ernest Newman’s biography of Wagner puts to bed the myth of the naive mad King. He was an astute political operator and almost certainly not “mad” by any credible definition of the term. He was stitched up by malign courtiers. It’s a fascinating story and I hope COTW does justice to it.

[JasonPalmer]

There's already an active Wagner thread, what's the point of this new one?

That's a general thread, this is one about composer of the week, you know, on that radio 3 thingy

[JasonPalmer]

Tactfull acknowledgement of Wagner antisemitism and hitler links, Wagner now available everywhere but Israel .....

[Bryn]

Tactfull acknowledgement of Wagner antisemitism and hitler links, Wagner now available everywhere but Israel .....

See: https://theculturetrip.com/middle-ea...ned-in-israel/

Both Barenboim and Volkov, the latter very much of a 'left' perspective, often conduct performances of Wagner's work in Israel. Both also work with Palestinian musicians.

[ahinton]

See: https://theculturetrip.com/middle-ea...ned-in-israel/

Both Barenboim and Volkov, the latter very much of a 'left' perspective, often conduct performances of Wagner's work in Israel. Both also work with Palestinian musicians.

Barenboim holds Palestinian citizenship along with his native Argentina, Israel and Spain; indeed, I believe that he was the first person ever to hold Palestinian and Israeli citizenship simultaneously.

[kernelbogey]

Both Barenboim and Volkov, the latter very much of a 'left' perspective, often conduct performances of Wagner's work in Israel.

There's an extensive section in Wiki's Barenboim article on his significant role in getting Wagner played in Israel.

[smittims]

I admit I have not read Newman's life of Wagner, nor, it seems, did Visconti, whose film shows none of the insights you mention, Heldenleben, so I'm grateful for that .

[LHC]

From what I've read about Ludwig, he had no difficulty turning a blind eye to Wagner's flaws; he seems to have lived in an unreal world of his own.

Have you see the famous film, with Trevor Howard wonderful as Wagner (apart form being too tall, of course)?

Tony Palmer's film, Wagner, which is nearly 8 hours long and features Richard Burton as Wagner, provides another interesting take on Wagner's relationship with King Ludwig. The Hungarian actor László Gálffi plays King Ludwig II of Bavaria and his duplicitous and scheming courtiers are played by John Gielgud, Ralph Richardson and Laurence Olivier (I think the only time the three of them appeared on film together).

If you haven't seen it, its well worth searching out. The music is conducted by Solti, and the cast includes Vanessa Redgrave as Cosima, Peter Hoffmann and Gwyneth Jones as Ludwig and Malvina Schnorr von Carolsfeld (the first singers of Tristan and Isolde) as well as William Walton as King Frederick Augustus II of Saxony and Lady Walton as Maria Anna of Bavaria.

[Ein Heldenleben]

I admit I have not read Newman's life of Wagner, nor, it seems, did Visconti, whose film shows none of the insights you mention, Heldenleben, so I'm grateful for that .

I honestly think , if Newman’s meticulous scholarship is accurate , that Ludwig is one of the most maligned figures in 19th century history. Newman convinced me he wasn’t mad and was more or less the victim of a courtier inspired coup. He even has an appendix on the entire saga. It’s an absolutely fascinating and horrifying tale.

[JasonPalmer]

Ah yes, that's the film I have seen part of, looks like it on YouTube

[LHC]

I honestly think , if Newman’s meticulous scholarship is accurate , that Ludwig is one of the most maligned figures in 19th century history. Newman convinced me he wasn’t mad and was more or less the victim of a courtier inspired coup. He even has an appendix on the entire saga. It’s an absolutely fascinating and horrifying tale.

As I recall, a declaration of insanity was the only way he could be removed as King by his government, and so the declaration was at the very least a politically expedient way of getting rid of an inconvenient ruler who was himself considering dismissing the members of his cabinet. There is also considerable doubt over his supposed suicide by drowning and it is more likely he was trying to escape from his incarceration in Berg Castle when he died or was killed.

Mrs LHC and I visited the Linderhoff Palace and Neuschwanstein on one of our visits to Munich a few years ago.