Thomas Tallis

[ardcarp]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/m001hxlr

His life-story is a bit of a mystery. Digging by some energetic PhD student needed?

[JasonPalmer]

Interesting, have heard of Tallis but know nothing of him.

[Keraulophone]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/m001hxlr some energetic PhD student needed?

A delve into this book would be a good starting point:

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Thomas-Tallis-John-Harley/dp/0367597551/ref=asc_df_0367597551/?tag=googshopuk-21&linkCode=df0&hvadid=463101379125&hvpos=&hvnetw=g&hvrand=3366605230928971757&hvpone=&hvptwo=&hvqmt=&hvdev=c&hvdvcmdl=&hvlocint=&hvlocphy=1007179&hvtargid=pla-971788932231&psc=1&th=1&psc=1

[JasonPalmer]

Listening now, salve intemerata sounds good,

[Mandryka]

Tallis's Gaude Gloriosa Dei Mater is good

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cH_bD3XzXX0&t=7s&ab_channel=DonGoncau

I also like the lamentations.


The one many people rate is Spem in alium -- it's a minimalistic and static piece of music using the same music again and again without much variation and without noticeable complex counterpoint or harmonic daringness. It may be that to appreciate it you have to hear it in a church where you can appreciate the antiphony -- which may well be the main point.

Here's a sound installation of it

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rZXBia5kuqY&ab_channel=KQEDArts

[Pulcinella]

A delve into this book would be a good starting point:

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Thomas-Tall...c=1&th=1&psc=1

Has anyone read Kerry McCarthy's book on Tallis?

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Tallis-MASTER-MUSICIANS-Kerry-McCarthy/dp/0190635215/ref=sr_1_1?crid=2UG40XTRZ2Z38&keywords=thomas+tallis+mccarthy&qid=1676379280&s=books&sprefix=thomas+tallis+mccarthy%2Cstripbooks%2C58&sr=1-1

Her book on Byrd was highly regarded (though not by me: I found it far too conjectural) and against my better judgement I was persuaded to try the one on Tallis, but gave up, as I found it rather superficial and poorly structured.
Maybe others thought differently.

[smittims]

I was surprised to see your description of 'Spem in Alium' , Mandryka. I certainly wouldn't call it 'minimalistic'. Some of it is in forty real parts, after all. How many more would you want before you'd call it 'complex'?

As for using the same music again and again, that may apply to Allegri's 'Miserere' but surely not to Tallis' piece which has little repetition after the opening section where the voices enter in imitation. And I think there is 'noticeable harmonic daringness ' at bar 108 : the mediant key-shift at 'Respice..'

I've never heard it in a church but I've not just 'appreciated it' but loved it ever since I first heard it , in the famous Willcocks recording.

[Mandryka]

Some of it is in forty real parts, after all. . . . How many more would you want before you'd call it 'complex'?

It sounds to me that for most of the time the 8 choirs of 5 are singing together. For old complexity, just go to any of the big bad canons towards the end of AoF!

I clearly have a blind spot for this warhorse!

[Bryn]

I was surprised to see your description of 'Spem in Alium' , Mandryka. I certainly wouldn't call it 'minimalistic'. Some of it is in forty real parts, after all. How many more would you want before you'd call it 'complex'?

As for using the same music again and again, that may apply to Allegri's 'Miserere' but surely not to Tallis' piece which has little repetition after the opening section where the voices enter in imitation. And I think there is 'noticeable harmonic daringness ' at bar 108 : the mediant key-shift at 'Respice..'

I've never heard it in a church but I've not just 'appreciated it' but loved it ever since I first heard it , in the famous Willcocks recording.

It works beautifully 'in the round'.

[oddoneout]

Tallis's Gaude Gloriosa Dei Mater is good

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cH_bD3XzXX0&t=7s&ab_channel=DonGoncau

I also like the lamentations.


The one many people rate is Spem in alium -- it's a minimalistic and static piece of music using the same music again and again without much variation and without noticeable complex counterpoint or harmonic daringness. It may be that to appreciate it you have to hear it in a church where you can appreciate the antiphony -- which may well be the main point.

Here's a sound installation of it

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rZXB...annel=KQEDArts

Many years ago I was fortunate enough to hear the Janet Cardiff sound installation in an empty medieval church, so not only in the round but in an appropriate setting. Being able to walk round fully immersed, submerged even, in the sound was quite something. It may be 8 x 5 part choirs singing at the same time but they are not singing together as becomes apparent when listening like that.
Much as I enjoyed that hearing I wouldn't say it is a particular favourite of mine; I listen when it's on but don't seek it out.

[RichardB]

Many years ago I was fortunate enough to hear the Janet Cardiff sound installation

That is a really interesting piece of work. When I saw it I heard the piece at least three times in a row.

[Mandryka]

I am clearly a speminaliumphobe.

[kernelbogey]

Many years ago I was fortunate enough to hear the Janet Cardiff sound installation....

Me too - in the Salisbury Cathedral cloisters - a magical experience.

[mopsus]

Me too - in the Salisbury Cathedral cloisters - a magical experience.

I also heard it in Salisbury, although as I've sung Spem in Alium a number of times it rather replicated that experience for me.

For anyone wishing to explore the piece and perform it, there is a day workshop on it on April 29th in Gloucester Cathedral, led by Adrian Partington: https://gloucesterchoral.com/concert...spem-in-alium/

[ardcarp]

I was surprised to see your description of 'Spem in Alium' , Mandryka. I certainly wouldn't call it 'minimalistic'.

I was surprised to see that too. I do appreciate however that the forty parts seem to fall into blocks of chords, the polyphonic effect being achieved partly by rhythmic motifs. I do agree, however, that to appreciate the piece fully, one has to hear it live, with the 8 choirs disposed around the building. Listening to a basic stereo recording loses more than half the impact, I think. Taking part in one of the choirs is even more thrilling.