Robert Simpson: 31 May-4 June

[LMcD]

I'd be happy to recommend jumping in at the deep end with the Sinfonia Semplice. Wonderful work.

The last movement of Nielsen's 3rd symphony is one of the most stirring symphonic utterances I've encountered - to me, it conjures up images of a group of friends striding along in hilly country on a day of sunny intervals and racing clouds. My problem with the 6th is that he seems to be self-consciously creating controversial gear changes at times.

[jayne lee wilson]

Once overheard a brass player in the bar describing the “Inextinguishable” symphony as the “Inexcusable” . I’d never heard it live before and hadn’t realised how loud it was - the orchestra had perspex screens everywhere. Despite the brass player’s reservations it was an excellent performance ...
On thread I wonder if having a few nicknames might have helped Simpson’s symphonies cut through a bit more with the public ?

But are the Nielsen 4's climaxes especially louder than those in Bruckner, Mahler, DSCH etc? Surely not.
The two sets of timps only come through in the finale conflict, and there are several quiet or lower-level passages in every movement: the development in (i), the lovely Brahmsian intermezzo-style allegretto (ii) mainly for winds, very soft throughout; the long mysterious preparation in (iv) (so echt-Nielsonian, you find such passages in almost every symphony) for the final sweeping into the triumphant coda. The impassioned slow movement is largely carried on a wave of strings until its climax approaches.....

Back in the day I heard this 4th live twice at the RLPO, only feeling the level to be exceptional when those kettledrums began their memorable, thrilling duel... but still not approaching the ear-challenging soundwaves of, say, a Mahler 6 finale or a Bruckner or DSCH 8 (not to mention the Leningrad....you felt apprehensive just watching all those brasses filling up the top row of the choir stalls...right between the eyes.....)

So Nielsen 4 is not a particularly "loud" symphony, but its very continuity presents the listener with challenges: rapidly contrasting dynamic levels, and marvellously varied musical and textural characters....and that extraordinary density of integrated symphonic argument (which may be what wears the faint-hearted listeners out, rather than sheer power...)

Remarkable creation, still sounding very new and "contemporary" (as Stravinsky said of the Grosse Fuge) to these ears.....as endlessly challenging as all Great Art should be...

***
If you really like having your aural socks blown off, just whack up the volume on Simpson's own 4th (CotW only played the LvB/Haydn (76)-paraphrase scherzo on Monday) - it really is quite something!

[Serial_Apologist]

The last movement of Nielsen's 3rd symphony is one of the most stirring symphonic utterances I've encountered - to me, it conjures up images of a group of friends striding along in hilly country on a day of sunny intervals and racing clouds. My problem with the 6th is that he seems to be self-consciously creating controversial gear changes at times.

The Sixth - along with the Flute and Clarinet concertos of around the same time - is one of the late Nielsen works in which the optimistic spirit informing the earlier works accedes to uncertainties, which have been ascribed to the composer's failing health, although in the Sixth he did explain the skittishness (may I call it?) of the Sixth's third movement, expressed in a feeling that the world of thought expressed in musical terms was collapsing all around. If anything I welcome the embrace of influences outside of the highly personalised idiomatics of the first five symphonies: here we are hearing more than traces of Bartok, Shostakovitch and Hindemith.

I think one can detect something akin to this happening in the later Simpson - almost of a re-incarnation.

Thanks jayne for the links to the other Simpson thread.

[Ein Heldenleben]

But are the Nielsen 4's climaxes especially louder than those in Bruckner, Mahler, DSCH etc? Surely not.
The two sets of timps only come through in the finale conflict, and there are several quiet or lower-level passages in every movement: the development in (i), the lovely Brahmsian intermezzo-style allegretto (ii) mainly for winds, very soft throughout; the long mysterious preparation in (iv) (so echt-Nielsonian, you find such passages in almost every symphony) for the final sweeping into the triumphant coda. The impassioned slow movement is largely carried on a wave of strings until its climax approaches.....

Back in the day I heard this 4th live twice at the RLPO, only feeling the level to be exceptional when those kettledrums began their memorable, thrilling duel... but still not approaching the ear-challenging soundwaves of, say, a Mahler 6 finale or a Bruckner or DSCH 8 (not to mention the Leningrad....you felt apprehensive just watching all those brasses filling up the top row of the choir stalls...right between the eyes.....)

So Nielsen 4 is not a particularly "loud" symphony, but its very continuity presents the listener with challenges: rapidly contrasting dynamic levels, and marvellously varied musical and textural characters....and that extraordinary density of integrated symphonic argument (which may be what wears the faint-hearted listeners out, rather than sheer power...)

Remarkable creation, still sounding very new and "contemporary" (as Stravinsky said of the Grosse Fuge) to these ears.....as endlessly challenging as all Great Art should be...

No I think it’s the timp duel that was worrying the nearby brass player !

[Serial_Apologist]

So Nielsen 4 is not a particularly "loud" symphony, but its very continuity presents the listener with challenges: rapidly contrasting dynamic levels, and marvellously varied musical and textural characters....and that extraordinary density of integrated symphonic argument (which may be what wears the faint-hearted listeners out, rather than sheer power...)

Remarkable creation, still sounding very new and "contemporary" (as Stravinsky said of the Grosse Fuge) to these ears.....as endlessly challenging as all Great Art should be...

There is a consistency proper to the legacy Nielsen espoused that I find most convincingly carried through in the Fourth.

[jayne lee wilson]

There is a consistency proper to the legacy Nielsen espoused that I find most convincingly carried through in the Fourth.

Legacy?
The greatest artists tend to create their own...

Like Simpson, Nielsen can't bear to repeat himself; every symphony breaks new ground, especially in structural terms: so you have the 4-in-1 4th, the two-movement 5th (in 5 main sections); then the 6th sends up the trad 4-movement form with its astonishing subversions (the only movement resembling anything sonata-like is (i) - as great a symphonic achievement as anything in the 20thC, a symphony in itself and, like Schoenberg's String Trio, inspired by a heart attack - and even that follows no obvious formal model).

His late Concertos for flute and clarinet go even further down this musically continuous, continually inventive, evolutionary path, often sounding improvisatory; and towering, quirkily witty masterpieces they surely are.

Consider too, that Sibelius also cleaved to the one-movement form in his last works; and all this was obviously vital to Simpson. (But who also, in his 10th Symphony, returned to those 4 movements again. But finally a (marvellous, utterly unique in its expressive range and originality) two-movement 11th - perhaps a Nielsen-homage for the cognoscenti there...)

[LMcD]

The Sixth - along with the Flute and Clarinet concertos of around the same time - is one of the late Nielsen works in which the optimistic spirit informing the earlier works accedes to uncertainties, which have been ascribed to the composer's failing health, although in the Sixth he did explain the skittishness (may I call it?) of the Sixth's third movement, expressed in a feeling that the world of thought expressed in musical terms was collapsing all around. If anything I welcome the embrace of influences outside of the highly personalised idiomatics of the first five symphonies: here we are hearing more than traces of Bartok, Shostakovitch and Hindemith.

I think one can detect something akin to this happening in the later Simpson - almost of a re-incarnation.

Thanks jayne for the links to the other Simpson thread.

Thank you - most interesting! Do you think that he nevertheless managed to maintain his impish sense of humour to, or almost to, the end?

[jayne lee wilson]

Thank you - most interesting! Do you think that he nevertheless managed to maintain his impish sense of humour to, or almost to, the end?

As I just said, listen to those aforementioned late Concertos for Flute and Clarinet (both written after the 6th) to hear the affirmative answer to that one!

There's a wonderful part for bass trombone in the one for Flute, described Robert Simpson thus:

"This coarse individual spreads himself all over the score with aimless and grotesque blether, as if looking for something he has never even remembered to forget, whilst the aristocratic flute expresses his outraged sensibilities."

Simpson was a dazzlingly gifted writer on music and much else, as well as the great composer currently under scrutiny...

Too much to say about the Nielsen 6th.... but no time right now....but see the Composers' subforum once again...

[LMcD]

As I just said, listen to those aforementioned late Concertos for Flute and Clarinet (both written after the 6th) to hear the affirmative answer to that one!

There's a wonderful part for bass trombone in the one for Flute, described Robert Simpson thus:

"This coarse individual spreads himself all over the score with aimless and grotesque blether, as if looking for something he has never even remembered to forget, whilst the aristocratic flute expresses his outraged sensibilities."

Simpson was a dazzlingly gifted writer on music and much else, as well as the great composer currently under scrutiny...

Too much to say about the Nielsen 6th.... but no time right now....but see the Composers' subforum once again...

At one point in the clarinet concerto the soloist emits the sort of shriek that might be produced by a maiden aunt caught in the shower.
The trombone and flute 'duet' is also pretty priceless, isn't it? Mr S's description captures it perfectly.

[Edgy 2]

I can live without Nielsen and Sibelius but I can't possibly live without Bob Simpson

[cloughie]

I can live without Nielsen and Sibelius but I can't possibly live without Bob Simpson

I can live without Simpson, but I like quite a big chunk of Nielsen and an even bigger chunk of Sibelius particularly Op9, Op49 and Op22!

[LMcD]

I can live without Simpson, but I like quite a big chunk of Nielsen and an even bigger chunk of Sibelius particularly Op9, Op49 and Op22!

Couldn't live without Sibelius Opp 22 and 82! Favourite Nielsen work: Symphony No. 3.

I have to confess that, before this week's programmes, I knew even less about Robert Simpson's activities as an author and broadcaster than I did about his music. I don't know whether he can be described as a 'champion' of Nielsen in particular, but we should be grateful for any part he played in raising awareness of the Great Dane's compositions. The infrequency with which Mr Simpson's works, and those of other 20th century British composers, appear to be broadcast or programmed leads one to wonder whether they, too, have a 'champion' somewhere out there who's fighting to gain them a fair hearing.

[Edgy 2]

Simpson fans take note

https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/m000wt1x

[Ein Heldenleben]

Couldn't live without Sibelius Opp 22 and 82! Favourite Nielsen work: Symphony No. 3.

I have to confess that, before this week's programmes, I knew even less about Robert Simpson's activities as an author and broadcaster than I did about his music. I don't know whether he can be described as a 'champion' of Nielsen in particular, but we should be grateful for any part he played in raising awareness of the Great Dane's compositions. The infrequency with which Mr Simpson's works, and those of other 20th century British composers, appear to be broadcast or programmed leads one to wonder whether they, too, have a 'champion' somewhere out there who's fighting to gain them a fair hearing.

Simpson wrote the one of the key volumes on Nielsen ‘Carl Nielsen, Symphonist’ and was awarded the Carl Nielsen Medal by Denmark. He also edited the Penguin Guide to the Symphony which includes a substantial and very generous chapter on Nielsen. Difficult maybe to think of a writer who did more for the Dane to be honest. Only remembered this as I happened to be leafing through the Penguin volume today.

[jayne lee wilson]

Couldn't live without Sibelius Opp 22 and 82! Favourite Nielsen work: Symphony No. 3.

I have to confess that, before this week's programmes, I knew even less about Robert Simpson's activities as an author and broadcaster than I did about his music. I don't know whether he can be described as a 'champion' of Nielsen in particular, but we should be grateful for any part he played in raising awareness of the Great Dane's compositions. The infrequency with which Mr Simpson's works, and those of other 20th century British composers, appear to be broadcast or programmed leads one to wonder whether they, too, have a 'champion' somewhere out there who's fighting to gain them a fair hearing.

Well I do my best here.....(#123 et seq)

http://www.for3.org/forums/showthread.php?17752-Simpson-Robert-(1921-1997)/page13

If you want the full-low-down on all his creativity, writing campaigning broadcasting composing, then its all here -

https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/1479794384/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o01_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

...the CotW series was effectively a redaction of the MacAuley biography (a great, informative and entertainingly-written read...)....
Simpson's seminal book on Nielsen was crucial for me, I found it by chance in the local library when Gramophone and Radio 3 had led to my initial discovery of his wonderful, life-affirming, lifelong-soul-nourishing, Symphonies...

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Carl-Nielsen-Symphonist-Crescendo-book/dp/0900707968/ref=sr_1_1?dchild=1&keywords=simpson+nielsen&qid=1623202740&s=books&sr=1-1

Bruckner, Nielsen, Simpson.....I was lucky to be voyaging out across this Wide Symphonic Sea, where all three great and beautiful islands awaited my visits, when I was young enough to have the curiosity, the sense of adventure, the sheer naive wide-eyed open-ness of mind to respond.....

With a Love that remains undimmed....

*****

BASIL BUNTING: On The Fly-Leaf Of Pound's Cantos

There are the Alps. What is there to say about them?
They don't make sense. Fatal glaciers, crags cranks climb,
jumbled boulder and weed, pasture and boulder, scree,
et l'on entend, maybe, le refrain joyeux et leger.
Who knows what the ice will have scraped on the rock it is smoothing?

There they are, you will have to go a long way round
if you want to avoid them.
It takes some getting used to. There are the Alps,
fools! Sit down and wait for them to crumble!