Ruth Gipps (1921-1999)

[Vox Humana]

Quite a defensive personality, for all her gifts

Obviously you never knew her.

[ahinton]

Obviously you never knew her.

Well, I didn't know her either but was aware of her presence at RCM when I studied there; her extreme conservatism and defensive attitude towards adherence to it were known way back then. Her prerogative, of course but it rather struck me as more abrasively dogmatic than anything that one might ever have expected to hear from her earlier composer compatriots such as Ireland and Bridge, Rubbra and Berkeley or even from her almost exact contemporarires Simpson and Arnold. Whether it came actively to discourage performances of her music during the latter part of her life I have no idea but I suppose that it could indeed have been a contributory factor. Such as I've heard of it this week suggests to me that, whilst the best of it hardly deserved the fate that has befallen it, there remains a somewhat disspiriting blandness and predictability that might well have been one casualty of her determinedly entrenched stance on new and recent music that differed greatly from her own.

[Vox Humana]

Well I did know her very well. She was my H&C professor at the RCM—and a very fine teacher I found her too. Yes, she felt victimised by misogyny, but that's because she was, but to call her defensive misunderstands her completely. She was quite the opposite. I remember her telling me how she had to fight the preconception that only male pianists were strong enough to play the Brahms piano concertos. She won in the end. She occasionally roped me into playing the celesta in the London Repertoire Orchestra in order that I could gain some experience of orchestration from the inside—until one day when I forgot to turn up and that was the end of that! Yes, she could be prickly, but she was still gracious enough to come to our wedding and I still have the facsimile edition of the Brandenburgs that she gave us for our wedding present.

[ahinton]

Well I did know her very well. She was my H&C professor at the RCM—and a very fine teacher I found her too. Yes, she felt victimised by misogyny, but that's because she was, but to call her defensive misunderstands her completely. She was quite the opposite. I remember her telling me how she had to fight the preconception that only male pianists were strong enough to play the Brahms piano concertos. She won in the end. She occasionally roped me into playing the celesta in the London Repertoire Orchestra in order that I could gain some experience of orchestration from the inside—until one day when I forgot to turn up and that was the end of that! Yes, she could be prickly, but she was still gracious enough to come to our wedding and I still have the facsimile edition of the Brandenburgs that she gave us for our wedding present.

Thank you for that. I can't and therefore don't seek to speak for anyone else who has used the term "defensive" about Ruth Gipps but can confirm that my own use of it related solely to her stance on what she considered negatively to be "modernism" in music and not to anything else in her life. Yes, misogyny has reared its ugly head in all manner of places and I don't doubt that RG encountered her fair share of it but has, for example, Thea Musgrave done the same and did Grażyna Bacewicz do so despite being a wife and mother as well as violinist, composer and pianist? Just curious, but it's RG's attitude towards so much contemporary music of her day that might to some extent have done for her.

[vinteuil]

Having reached yesterday, I was increasingly of the feeling that this is music of a rather narrow emotional and idiomatic range four bars of this followed by a modulation up a minor third or down a major one, then four bars to another modulation, just about managing to curcumvent banality, but, if not exactly predictable, all rather "so what?", when so much of such stuff had been so much more engagingly and energetically done by earlier English composers ....

... the word I have been groping for is epigone

.

[Ein Heldenleben]

Well I did know her very well. She was my H&C professor at the RCM—and a very fine teacher I found her too. Yes, she felt victimised by misogyny, but that's because she was, but to call her defensive misunderstands her completely. She was quite the opposite. I remember her telling me how she had to fight the preconception that only male pianists were strong enough to play the Brahms piano concertos. She won in the end. She occasionally roped me into playing the celesta in the London Repertoire Orchestra in order that I could gain some experience of orchestration from the inside—until one day when I forgot to turn up and that was the end of that! Yes, she could be prickly, but she was still gracious enough to come to our wedding and I still have the facsimile edition of the Brandenburgs that she gave us for our wedding present.

Very interesting memories . Listening to her being interviewed I don’t doubt for a second she was the victim of prejudice against female conductors in particular. But I do wonder how skilled she was at the “schmoozing” side of building a career? I’ve seen so many people (not in the world of classical music ) get on because of their very smooth social skills , their mastery of avoiding confrontation yet without any huge talents . She was obviously very talented but did she “run to a fight” ? I think you can get away with it if you are Wagner but as you get further down the talent ladder the politics becomes all important.

[Vox Humana]

... but it's RG's attitude towards so much contemporary music of her day that might to some extent have done for her.

Well, I don't know whether Wid's attitude would have made any difference. The very fact that she wrote the type of music she did was probably enough to consign it to outer darkness. William Lloyd Webber felt the same - that his music was unfashionable - which is similarly a shame since it is well-wrought and attractive and the orchestral/chamber players I know who have played any of it all rate it highly. He seems to have lost faith in the worth of his compositions as a result, which Wid never did. That she was very strong-minded probably explains that.

[Vox Humana]

But I do wonder how skilled she was at the “schmoozing” side of building a career?

Very little, I should think. I think it was more her style to be brutally honest and that never wins you friends. I know: I tend to take after her in that respect!

[oddoneout]

Very interesting memories . Listening to her being interviewed I don’t doubt for a second she was the victim of prejudice against female conductors in particular. But I do wonder how skilled she was at the “schmoozing” side of building a career? I’ve seen so many people (not in the world of classical music ) get on because of their very smooth social skills , their mastery of avoiding confrontation yet without any huge talents . She was obviously very talented but did she “run to a fight” ? I think you can get away with it if you are Wagner but as you get further down the talent ladder the politics becomes all important.

Perhaps she didn't see why she should have to "schmooze", that she should be judged on her abilities, rather than her sex which after all she could do nothing about?

[Ein Heldenleben]

Perhaps she didn't see why she should have to "schmooze", that she should be judged on her abilities, rather than her sex which after all she could do nothing about?

I would agree but the ability to schmooze isn’t gender determined. Unless you are supremely talented it really helps to get people on your side if you are building a career in a very competitive business. If you put peoples’ backs up they will have ways of blocking your progress. I’ve only ever worked very tangentially in the music business but everything I’ve heard about it indicates that ‘fair selection’ is not always standard procedure . In other words the slightly less talented person that people can get along with will win out over the more talented awkward customer - not to mention outright favouritism . I could be completely wrong...correct me if I am.

[Vox Humana]

Perhaps she didn't see why she should have to "schmooze", that she should be judged on her abilities, rather than her sex which after all she could do nothing about?

Could be, but I'm more inclined to suspect that it never entered her head that she should act in that way.

[Edgy 2]

Happily the Rumon Gamba recording of 2 & 4 is on Qobuz so I shall start there.

The other music to grab me so far: Seascape for double wind quintet, and the remarkable horn concerto - David Pyatt dazzling.... I shall be re-listening to that plus the rest of this enticing Lyrita recording (also on Qobuz):

That is a marvelous cd

[bluestateprommer]

Speaking of RG's Horn Concerto, next Wednesday on R3 in Concert features the BBC SO's opening concert from this fall's season, with this very concerto on the 1st half:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/m0010prn

Very much looking forward to hearing this concert.