Soviet Russia (1917-1953) : 6-17 November

[Richard Barrett]

I know quite abit about already. I still think that it was a pity that George V couldn't help the Tsar and his family to come to this country

I would say they got what was coming to them!

[Bryn]

I would say they got what was coming to them!

One might concur where Nicholas was concerned, but the children and servants? Not the most glorious night's work of the forces of the Ural Regional Soviet.

[vinteuil]

I would say they got what was coming to them!

... hmmm. Not sure that I'm a fan of extra-judicial killing. Not even really that keen on the death penalty, come to think of it. Never was a great enthusiast for Hébert, Robespierre, Saint-Just and the rest of that lot either...

Omelettes and eggs - pffui!


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[Lat-Literal]

Would it be feasible to keep this thread going for next week's COTW, dealing with the post-Zhdanov period of Soviet music, about which I for one know far too little, apart from in the area of jazz, maybe? Last night I caught the second piano concerto of Rodion Shchedrin of 1964 on TTN, a marvellous work which, listened to "blind", I had assumed to be early Henze, and just now found this interview on the composer's website, from 3 years ago:

http://www.shchedrin.de/index.php?id=28

This is yet another composer whose politics are subject to widely varying interpretation and whose music has suffered in the longer term because of the more negative connotations. He was very high up in the hierarchy - so you will get people saying not as good as Gubaidulina, Schnittke etc for that reason. Mainly I have steered clear but perhaps that is wrong.

[Richard Barrett]

Not sure that I'm a fan of extra-judicial killing.

I'm not either, but I think it's entirely understandable that people who had suffered under the Romanovs' feudal rule would take the situation into their hands in such a way. It would have been better, as always, if they had stood trial; I was reacting to BBM's silly idea that they should have escaped to Britain and got off scot free.

[Padraig]

I'm not either

Nor me, as vinteuil has stated.

Bbm's idea that the Czar and his family should have been spared is not silly in my book.

I could say more but 'least said...'

[richardfinegold]

One might concur where Nicholas was concerned, but the children and servants? Not the most glorious night's work of the forces of the Ural Regional Soviet.

The Romanovs were despotic and needed to go. However, the crimes of Imperial Russia and the Ural Soviet are a drop in the borscht compared to the Soviet Terror that Lenin, Trotsky, and then the demon par excellence, Stalin, unleashed

[Richard Barrett]

The Romanovs were despotic and needed to go. However, the crimes of Imperial Russia and the Ural Soviet are a drop in the borscht compared to the Soviet Terror that Lenin, Trotsky, and then the demon par excellence, Stalin, unleashed

That is indeed a whole other discussion, preferably to be conducted once more without sweeping generalisations or regurgitation of propaganda! - but perhaps not right now.

[teamsaint]

The whole other discussion would need to be a very wide one, IMO.

http://www.independent.co.uk/voices/commentators/johann-hari/johann-hari-the-truth-our-empire-killed-millions-404631.html

...for example.....

[richardfinegold]

The whole other discussion would need to be a very wide one, IMO.

http://www.independent.co.uk/voices/commentators/johann-hari/johann-hari-the-truth-our-empire-killed-millions-404631.html

...for example.....

I am not absolving the British Empire, or the American extermination of indigenous peoples. The subject we were discussing, however, was the evilness of the Stalinist vs. the despotism of the Romanovs. I mean, how do you "rank" this kind of thing?

[Lat-Literal]

I am not absolving the British Empire, or the American extermination of indigenous peoples. The subject we were discussing, however, was the evilness of the Stalinist vs. the despotism of the Romanovs. I mean, how do you "rank" this kind of thing?

Yes.

I think the proper gauge in all of these things is a comparison of regimes at any given time period.

The 19th Century, by definition, was different - everywhere.

This principle may be applied less firmly the farther into the 20th and 21st Centuries we travelled.

Being more recent, one expects the upholding of any enlightenment achieved thus far (as we see it).

[teamsaint]

I am not absolving the British Empire, or the American extermination of indigenous peoples. The subject we were discussing, however, was the evilness of the Stalinist vs. the despotism of the Romanovs. I mean, how do you "rank" this kind of thing?

Well clearly you can't rank the awful effects of collectivisation against the horrors of the Indian famines, for example.

I'm rather uneasy about how the BBC has been " commemorating" the revolution. But there isn't much doubt that, one way or another, the revolution had a profound effect on music in the region, and those effects are of course well worth examining in the context of a dedicated music station such as R3. But that examination will not often be exactly the way we personally would like it presented. And we all bring our politics and opinions along for the ride.

[BBMmk2]

I would say they got what was coming to them!

Perhaps Tsar Nicholas but the children?

[Sir Velo]

You've got to be realistic. If the children had been spared there would have always been the threat of a Romanov return hanging over the Bolshevik revolution; they would have become a figurehead for all the counter revolutionaries, state sponsored and otherwise.

[BBMmk2]

You've got to be realistic. If the children had been spared there would have always been the threat of a Romanov return hanging over the Bolshevik revolution; they would have become a figurehead for all the counter revolutionaries, state sponsored and otherwise.

Very true. Just seemed so cruel.