Birth of Polyphony: 31 July – 4 August

[ferneyhoughgeliebte]

I love it, too. And there were someinteresting biographical details I wasn't aware of.
But how can you have a whole week of monophony-to-polyphony wthout a proper discussion of the whole corpus of Gregorian plainsong?
Perhaps that'll come tomorrow. But really, it needs a week (or more) to itself.

[jean]

..jean's typo (if it was such)...

It WAS! And it's GONE! Forget it, NOW!!

[DracoM]

Well, sorry, but I am still waiting for fuller explanations / contextualising. So far, a bit of a let-down.
And I am certainly surprised with jean on the lack of a clear plainsong-to-polyphony strategy
Or is it just a chance to play a lot of Hildegard of Bingen? I do hope not, even though I like H of B a lot.

[Serial_Apologist]

Well, sorry, but I am still waiting for fuller explanations / contextualising. So far, a bit of a let-down.
And I am certainly surprised with jean on the lack of a clear plainsong-to-polyphony strategy
Or is it just a chance to play a lot of Hildegard of Bingen? I do hope not, even though I like H of B a lot.

To the programme's credit, there was mention of H von B's unorthodox uses of combined modes, as well as her unusually wide pitch range, for so early, when, we were told not so long ago, the tessitura (if that's the word) rarely extended as far an an octave. And someone was cited as having said there was no evidence of the singularity of monophony or absence of polyphony anywhere, in that or any music of any period, thereby undermining the very title of the week's theme. But I'm not so sure just how unorthodox her polymodal transgressions would have been, (the former presumably consigning one to eternal pergatory in the eyes of the then-law givers), because of the lack of contextualisation of her music. But this, as I've pointed out countless times here, has become the fate of COTW - strong on conferring personality, even celebrity status on its subjects, less so on talking about the hows, whys and wherefores of their actual music.

[DracoM]

<< But this, as I've pointed out countless times here, has become the fate of COTW - strong on conferring personality, even celebrity status on its subjects, less so on talking about the hows, whys and wherefores of their actual music. >>


Oh yes, indeed, could not agree more. And since the death of AH's 'Talking about Music', there is AFAIR NO prog on R3 which even comes close to doing so. In fact, serial-apologist's posting above is MORE informative and contextualising than almost anything we heard in the COTW in question.

Sigh.

[Richard Tarleton]

Anyway - the prog this morning has prompted me to order Fiona Maddocks's book, which I've been meaning to get hold of for some time. A 2nd hand copy is on its way.

[Serial_Apologist]

I feel rather that I should retract now all I said on here yesterday, today's programme having answered all my stated criticisms, and at the same time begun filling a serious historical gap in my listening.

[DracoM]

Yes, just caught up with Tues edition - far better explanations and useful contexts and insights.

[Quarky]

Yeah....we say Yeah!

I wrote to Donald Macleod this morning, thanking him for this episode. He has solved my musical problem(s). Everything now falling into place!

[Serial_Apologist]

Yeah....we say Yeah!

I wrote to Donald Macleod this morning, thanking him for this episode. He has solved my musical problem(s). Everything now falling into place!

We do indeed, Oddball; and you are quite correct. The first piece on today's programme, with its odd modulations, by Machaut, could almost have been from Satie's Rose Croix period, making me think that Erik must have done a lot of homework on music of the period under investigation. What a week! I'm becoming as infatuated with Mediaeval music as I've always been with modern music; and I wasn't even born then! Interesting it is to learn of the uses to which mathematical predetermination was being applied compositionally as early as the 13the century, during what people told us was the pre-Enlightenment, Dark Ages: what do the anti-modernist, anti-serialist fundamentalists we've been considering on another thread have to say on all this? Anti-Christian??

[jean]

I am still not getting enough about plainsong, and exactly how it was used.

Maybe (as I said upthread) it needs at least a whole week to itself.

[Serial_Apologist]

I am still not getting enough about plainsong, and exactly how it was used.

Maybe (as I said upthread) it needs at least a whole week to itself.

Nor, arguably, about influences coming from the Middle East, courtesy The Crusades.

(This could be "false memory syndrome", but I do seem to remember a series of programmes on R3 on the subject of plainsong, many years ago).

[Quarky]

We do indeed, Oddball; and you are quite correct. The first piece on today's programme, with its odd modulations, by Machaut, could almost have been from Satie's Rose Croix period, making me think that Erik must have done a lot of homework on music of the period under investigation. .......... what do the anti-modernist, anti-serialist fundamentalists we've been considering on another thread have to say on all this? Anti-Christian??

Thanks S_A. Clearly we travel at different altitudes, but in the same general direction. Key for me was the little musical play by Adam de la Halle: Le jeu de Robin et Marion (based in Arras - Calais part of UK at the time, I believe). With help from COTW, I could see this as an essential step in the development of Classical music. However I could also hear the rough and raucous sounds, and earthy voices as leading direct in a parallel universe into modern forms of music, short-circuiting the entire Classical period !

[DracoM]

So far, this has been one of the more informative and illuminating COTWs.
Method described a bit. Admittedly, with fewer clear bio facts, they have less to confuse those who actually want to hear about composition method as opposed to titbits and gossip i.e. the TRANSITION was a topic and explained.

[MickyD]

Nor, arguably, about influences coming from the Middle East, courtesy The Crusades.

(This could be "false memory syndrome", but I do seem to remember a series of programmes on R3 on the subject of plainsong, many years ago).

Yes, indeed. I believe it was back in the late 70s, called 'Plainsong and the Rise of European Music', presented by Basil Lam. It was excellent, although there wasn't nearly so much to draw on from the record catalogues as there is now.