Gabriel Fauré

[ardcarp]

Today's programme included part of La Bonne Chanson, a cycle of songs setting Verlaine's poems of the same name. I haven't heard these for ages and they are LOVELY!

Today's CotW: http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b0833vzm
(start listening about 4 mins from start)

There are also various Youtube versions, some with strings, some piano only; some video, some sound only. Well worth a dabble.

[Serial_Apologist]

Today's programme included part of La Bonne Chanson, a cycle of songs setting Verlaine's poems of the same name. I haven't heard these for ages and they are LOVELY!

There are also various Youtube versions, some with strings, some piano only; some video, some sound only. Well worth a dabble.

Aren't they just ??? This was my first hearing of them, revealing the side of the composer being showcased this week that I haven't previously encountered, having concentrated hitherto on the chamber works.

[ardcarp]

I grew up with Elly Ameling. She's on Youtube, so is Fischer Dieskau. But for the genuine French article try Charles Panzera. Wonderful diction, even if sound antiquated.

This from Wiki:
While still a student at the Conservatoire he [Panzera] had met both its then Director, Gabriel Fauré, who oriented him towards the interpretation of vocal chamber works, and a fellow student, pianist Magdeleine Baillot, who would become his wife and lifelong accompanist.

[Nick Armstrong]

Excellent to hear the always-sublime Jill Gomez in Pelléas & Mélisande today - wasn't aware she'd recorded that

[visualnickmos]

Today's programme included part of La Bonne Chanson, a cycle of songs setting Verlaine's poems of the same name. I haven't heard these for ages and they are LOVELY!

They are lovely. I have Barbara Hendricks singing them. She is absolutely beautiful, in these.

[ardcarp]

Well, it was The Requiem today. I was on the point of fulminating about the cuts (especially the truncated Agnus Dei) when we learned it was Faure's original 5-movement version. You live and learn. La Chapelle Royale's 'u' was very prominent, especially as the other vowels ('ah' for instance) sounded very British. I quite liked the spacious tempi though.

[Serial_Apologist]

Well, it was The Requiem today. I was on the point of fulminating about the cuts (especially the truncated Agnus Dei) when we learned it was Faure's original 5-movement version. You live and learn. La Chapelle Royale's 'u' was very prominent, especially as the other vowels ('ah' for instance) sounded very British. I quite liked the spacious tempi though.

Indeed. I wonder what it apparently was that contemporary audiences or critics found so objectionable about the orchestration we heard in today's recording. So far, unless I'ver missed something, the series hasn't said anything about the fact, as I understand it, that Faure's pupil Koechlin did the majority of Faure's orchestrations, Faure himself having been "timbre deaf" when it came to the task - which is why they sound so good! Somebody might like to enlighten me as to the truth or otherwise of this assertion.

[Nick Armstrong]

I was on the point of fulminating

I'm sure another opportunity will be along soon!

[ardcarp]

the series hasn't said anything about the fact, as I understand it, that Faure's pupil Koechlin did the majority of Faure's orchestrations

I assume, however, it was Faure's idea to use the rich sonority of lower strings, with violins only making a brief appearance, e.g. in the Sanctus? And how did the 'original' scoring as used by Herreweghe differ from the time-honoured Hamelle edition with four horns, harp and organ?

I have a vague memory of a flute part and a trumpet part, but playing so few notes as to be generally omitted in cash-strapped local performances.

[Lat-Literal]

This is essential listening for me although I haven't got to it yet.

There is a modernity to the Requiem - especially in the Sanctus and Pie Jesu - which I have never been able to put my finger on. Perhaps the Koechlin point is relevant?

[makropulos]

Indeed. I wonder what it apparently was that contemporary audiences or critics found so objectionable about the orchestration we heard in today's recording. So far, unless I'ver missed something, the series hasn't said anything about the fact, as I understand it, that Faure's pupil Koechlin did the majority of Faure's orchestrations, Faure himself having been "timbre deaf" when it came to the task - which is why they sound so good! Somebody might like to enlighten me as to the truth or otherwise of this assertion.

The orchestration for the earlier version of the Requiem was done by Fauré himself - his autograph manuscript of same is in the Bibliotheque nationale de France, and online at www.gallica.fr. The version with expanded orchestration (including woodwind parts) was fixed up by his student Roger-Ducasse. That's the version done at the Trocadéro in 1900 in which the Pie Jesu was encored (!)

But that wonderful writing for divided violas and cellos throughout the Requiem is all Fauré's own work. I'm actually conducting this piece on Saturday and it's much on my mind at the moment! (We're doing all the movements in their early versions - he had set everything by 1894 in the smaller-scale orchestrations that were used at the Madeleine).

[ardcarp]

Good luck, Makro. Hope it goes well!

[Serial_Apologist]

Good luck, Makro. Hope it goes well!

Seconded. And thanks for correcting the misapprehension I had gleaned from reading of Faure's alleged inability to score effectively. (And to Ardcarp).

[Serial_Apologist]

This is essential listening for me although I haven't got to it yet.

There is a modernity to the Requiem - especially in the Sanctus and Pie Jesu - which I have never been able to put my finger on. Perhaps the Koechlin point is relevant?

It may have something to do with the modality of much of the harmony of those two movements, Lat; or possibly the mood of calm detachment, so far removed from the dramatic theatricality of so much of the religious music of the time, eg Verdi's Requiem.

That said, there is much in this week's offerings that looks forward to the early 20th century in harmonic boldness in the orchestral and operatic works in ways I have previously not seen, possibly being wrapped up in the arpeggiations so much a part of Faure's piano writing disguising just how much influenced he was by Wagner's "Tristan". Time for a reassessment of how much Faure can be considered to have contributed to the chromatic breakdown of harmonic language at this time that led towards atonality, alongside Debussy, Satie, Busoni and the Second Viennese, perhaps.

[Lat-Literal]

It may have something to do with the modality of much of the harmony of those two movements, Lat; or possibly the mood of calm detachment, so far removed from the dramatic theatricality of so much of the religious music of the time, eg Verdi's Requiem.

That said, there is much in this week's offerings that looks forward to the early 20th century in harmonic boldness in the orchestral and operatic works in ways I have previously not seen, possibly being wrapped up in the arpeggiations so much a part of Faure's piano writing disguising just how much influenced he was by Wagner's "Tristan". Time for a reassessment of how much Faure can be considered to have contributed to the chromatic breakdown of harmonic language at this time that led towards atonality, alongside Debussy, Satie, Busoni and the Second Viennese, perhaps.

Yes I think so, s_a - that makes a lot of sense to me.

Thank you.