Wagner and Beethoven

[Tetrachord]

This program was very interesting; I didn't realize Wagner had written at least 3 piano sonatas!! Those played on this program were rather repetitive in thematic development but you could very definitely hear the influence of Beethoven. We tend to think of Wagner in purely operatic terms but even then you can trace the evolution of his music - from Verdi in "Rienzi" (particularly the Overture) right through to his own unique and highly original style.

But this program makes a case for an ongoing influence exerted on Wagner by Beethoven. I've always regarded Wagner as having been more likely influenced by Berlioz in terms of his larger-scale works, rather than Beethoven - but, there you go!!

[ferneyhoughgeliebte]

We tend to think of Wagner in purely operatic terms but even then you can trace the evolution of his music - from Verdi in "Rienzi" (particularly the Overture) right through to his own unique and highly original style.

Not a very likely "influence" - Rienzi was written in 1840, at which time Verdi was working on his third opera, Nabucco and his first two operas (Oberto and Un giorno di regio) were unlikely to have been heard by Wagner. Meyerbeer was the greater influence at the time of Rienzi.

But this program makes a case for an ongoing influence exerted on Wagner by Beethoven. I've always regarded Wagner as having been more likely influenced by Berlioz in terms of his larger-scale works, rather than Beethoven - but, there you go!!

Well, the influence of Berlioz' Romeo can be heard in Tristan, but Beethoven - and in particular the Ninth Symphony and Fidelio - was Wagner's holy-of-holies throughout his life. (The opening of the Ninth Symphony and that of the Overture to The Flying Dutchman is the most obvious case of the younger composer nicking ideas and adapting them to his needs.)

[verismissimo]

Not a very likely "influence" - Rienzi was written in 1840... Meyerbeer was the greater influence at the time of Rienzi.

Meyerbeer... and Bellini?

[ferneyhoughgeliebte]

Meyerbeer... and Bellini?

- and thence to Verdi, perhaps?

Apologies for any Thread confusion - I thought it would be useful to have Tetra's post headed under "Composer of the Week", in order to make clear what "the programme" was to which she referred. Still got my "L"-plates on as a Host; with luck, all will now be well.

[Flosshilde]

Has this been extracted from another thread? I assume that it's the CoTW progs on Wagner & his influences broadcast last week (or the week before?) that is referred to by "this programme".

[ferneyhoughgeliebte]

Has this been extracted from another thread? I assume that it's the CoTW progs on Wagner & his influences broadcast last week (or the week before?) that is referred to by "this programme".

No - not extracted; a new Thread of its own. If I'd remembered/realized that there was already a Wagner CotW Thread, I would have tried my hand at Merging for the first time, rather than just moving a Thread!

In fact, now you mention it ...

[Flosshilde]

Always take an opportunity to learn new skills

[vinteuil]

Always take an opportunity to learn new skills

... is, indeed, the best way to stave off the onslaught of dementia, I'm told.

It's also a good way to stave off the onslaught of dementia....

I think it's also....

[richardfinegold]

... is, indeed, the best way to stave off the onslaught of dementia, I'm told.

It's also a good way to stave off the onslaught of dementia....

I think it's also....

[Tetrachord]

Apologies; I appear to have posted this in the wrong place. Still getting the hang...