Michel Legrand (1932-2019): 6-10/1/25

[oliver sudden]

in translation even the words can change or be adapted to modern speech.

Sorry to have to say this, but for me the idea of Mozart’s or Wagner’s or anyone’s operas acquiring new texts every few years according to the whim of the production is absolutely awful.

[smittims]

I was disgusted when in the ENO staging of HMS Pinafore Gilbert's spoken dialogue (for many G&S fans as important as Sullivan's music) was replaced by pantomime smut. My poor father would have turned in his grave.

[Master Jacques]

Handel wrote operas in Italian for England, and Mozart wrote operas in Italian for Vienna and Prague.

Which proves ... what precisely? That audiences in London needed the programme books to make any sense of what they hearing, talked through the operas and didn't much care about the drama, which infuriated the composer. This was one of the most infamously inattentive audience groups in operatic history. Handel was responding to aristocratic audience fashion, in writing his Italian operas in England. On his own commercial and artistic initiatives, he started to write operas and oratorios in English, gradually dropping his Italian productions in favour of the English dramas he felt increasingly more congenial artistically, for an English audience.

Vienna was of course Italian-orientated, as it still is, given its geographical placing; while Prague followed suit, under Viennese control. Mozart wrote fashionable Italian operas for his "sophisticated" aristocratic patrons, and a few operas in German (in the case of The Magic Flute) for public enterprise. Abduction from the Seraglio failed because it wasn't in Italian!

Both composers were bi(or tri)-lingual and did what they had to do, to make their living within the fiscal realities of their time.

Different times, different necessities. The international hegemony of Italian-language opera was broken down during the 19th century, at different speeds in different countries. England (infamously) was at the back of the queue. But today nobody writes operas in Italian, outside Italy. And even poor Stanford is performed (when he is performed) in English. These are good and natural things.

[Master Jacques]

Sorry to have to say this, but for me the idea of Mozart’s or Wagner’s or anyone’s operas acquiring new texts every few years according to the whim of the production is absolutely awful.

As we've seen, many Germans envy the flexibility of translations to save listeners from the increasingly impenetrable and marmoreal Stabreim of Wagner's original texts, and renew his operas. As Ein Heldenleben has indicated, the fluidity of translation from generation to generation as language changes is an advantage - as is the opportunity given to opera by generational changes in staging fashions. Translation - unlike some skewed surtitles I've seen - isn't usually at the "whim" of the staging, but necessarily responds to its own time in verbal style.

Unless, that is, we feel these operas are in some sense "holy writ" which should be protected from change of any kind, as to words, music or staging. Unfortunately, theatre never preserves anything in aspic - it's a question of change, or die.

[Master Jacques]

I was disgusted when in the ENO staging of HMS Pinafore Gilbert's spoken dialogue (for many G&S fans as important as Sullivan's music) was replaced by pantomime smut. My poor father would have turned in his grave.

The same was true of the ENO Iolanthe, which threw out quantities of Gilbert in favour of pier-end innuendo and pratfalls. Mike Leigh's Pirates of Penzance, however, was scrupulously respectful of Gilbert's original. Intelligent wit and irony were its mainstays. The directors of those other shows had no faith in the originals, and much more in their own brand of coarse "humour". It's hard to get the delicate balance of Sullivan AND Gilbert these days, but not impossible, as Leigh proved.

[Master Jacques]

Coming back to the Umbrellas of Cherbourg, I can't recall that any critic so much as mentioned the fact that the stage show was of course in English - that wasn't any sort of issue. The 'translation' from screen to stage was the sticking point:

https://www.theguardian.com/stage/2011/mar/23/the-umbrellas-of-cherbourg-review

[Ein Heldenleben]

As we've seen, many Germans envy the flexibility of translations to save listeners from the increasingly impenetrable and marmoreal Stabreim of Wagner's original texts, and renew his operas. As Ein Heldenleben has indicated, the fluidity of translation from generation to generation as language changes is an advantage - as is the opportunity given to opera by generational changes in staging fashions. Translation isn't at the "whim" of the staging style, but necessarily responds to its own time in verbal style.

Unless, that is, we feel these operas are in some sense "holy writ" which should be protected from change of any kind, as to words, music or staging. Unfortunately, theatre never preserves anything in aspic - it's a question of change, or die.

Yes it’s just not practical to do translations “every few years “ - too expensive and also audiences need time to get familiar with them. But they need to be done . Ernest Newman’s translation of The Ring is very literal but archaic and when heard must be difficult to follow as its full of sentence inversions which just sound weird in English) . I’ve only read it on the vocal score . Andrew Porters is much , much freer - definitely not word for word . Have to say I greatly prefer the latter.
One practical thing . Because English verbs are so often single syllable and nouns uninflected presumably you can get more meaning per note than Italian , French and German .I’ve often noted how much shorter French and German works in English translation are .

[vinteuil]

One practical thing . Because English verbs are so often single syllable and nouns uninflected presumably you can get more meaning per note than Italian , French and German .I’ve often noted how much shorter French and German works in English translation are .

I remember attending a performance of Tosca in Warsaw - it seemed as if the singers regularly had to stop the flow to insert another consonant cluster....

.

[Master Jacques]

Yes it’s just not practical to do translations “every few years “ - too expensive and also audiences need time to get familiar with them. But they need to be done . Ernest Newman’s translation of The Ring is very literal but archaic and when heard must be difficult to follow as its full of sentence inversions which just sound weird in English) . I’ve only read it on the vocal score . Andrew Porters is much , much freer - definitely not word for word . Have to say I greatly prefer the latter.
One practical thing . Because English verbs are so often single syllable and nouns uninflected presumably you can get more meaning per note than Italian , French and German .I’ve often noted how much shorter French and German works in English translation are .

Quite so: and the reduction in English of Spanish works out at about 3.7 to 5. The comparative richness of English vocabulary (especially adjectivally) is a great advantage for translators. There are surprisingly few words in other major European languages for which we can't find a very close match, although some locally nuanced ideas will always remain elusive. Translation is a fascinating, absorbing and - usually - very rewarding task. Artistically, if not financially!

[Pulcinella]

Quite so: and the reduction in English of Spanish works out at about 3.7 to 5. The comparative richness of English vocabulary (especially adjectivally) is a great advantage for translators. There are surprisingly few words in other major European languages for which we can't find a very close match, although some locally nuanced ideas will always remain elusive. Translation is a fascinating, absorbing and - usually - very rewarding task. Artistically, if not financially!

I do some occasional help with translation for friends in Rome, one of whom is involved in a Beauty Product company (I looked at the product descriptions on their website and in their catalogue).
I'm afraid that one of the ingredients used, snail slime, didn't really look good in either language.

[Master Jacques]

I do some occasional help with translation for friends in Rome, one of whom is involved in a Beauty Product company (I looked at the product descriptions on their website and in their catalogue).
I'm afraid that one of the ingredients used, snail slime, didn't really look good in either language.

I love it. Perhaps if it were called 'Helix Jelly' it might do rather better!

[Ein Heldenleben]

I do some occasional help with translation for friends in Rome, one of whom is involved in a Beauty Product company (I looked at the product descriptions on their website and in their catalogue).
I'm afraid that one of the ingredients used, snail slime, didn't really look good in either language.

I had to check this out . Amazingly snail slime IS good for the skin , the Mayo clinic is a respected institution.

https://mcpress.mayoclinic.org/living-well/snail-mucin-for-https://mcpress.mayoclinic.org/living-well/snail-mucin-for-skincare/#:~:text=Snail%20mucin%20contains%20antioxidants%2 0that,snail%20mucins%20for%2014%20weeks.skincare/#:~:text=Snail%20mucin%20contains%20antioxidants%2 0that,snail%20mucins%20for%2014%20weeks.

Bave D’escargot doesn’t sound too bad ..

Amazing how many derogatory/ unpleasant words in English start with sl - slag , slut , slave , slime .
Must be a reason that stretches back to pre history .

[Ein Heldenleben]

Quite so: and the reduction in English of Spanish works out at about 3.7 to 5. The comparative richness of English vocabulary (especially adjectivally) is a great advantage for translators. There are surprisingly few words in other major European languages for which we can't find a very close match, although some locally nuanced ideas will always remain elusive. Translation is a fascinating, absorbing and - usually - very rewarding task. Artistically, if not financially!

Here’s one you’ll be familiar with : Duende - that’s tricky . I’ve heard it translated (in the context of Flamenco) on Radio 3 as sprite .

I even read a guidebook in Andalusia which talked about the “essence ,the goblin, of this Gypsy art” !

It was largely because I’d read a book called Duende about a Brit learning Flamenco that I knew they’d picked the wrong definition out of the dictionary.

[Master Jacques]

Here’s one you’ll be familiar with : Duende - that’s tricky . I’ve heard it translated (in the context of Flamenco) on Radio 3 as sprite .

I even read a guidebook in Andalusia which talked about the “essence ,the goblin, of this Gypsy art” !

It was largely because I’d read a book called Duende about a Brit learning Flamenco that I knew they’d picked the wrong definition out of the dictionary.

'Duende' depends on context, but usually 'spirit' does the trick (as in the zarzuela El duende by Rafael Hernando). You get the occasional goblin or elf involved, for sure, but generally it's the broader, more ghostly meaning that's required.

My own high hurdles are 'chulo', 'chulapa' and ... endlessly invoked by Spanish academics, 'costumbrista'. There really isn't a handy word for that in English - the dictionary unhelpfully suggests 'costumbrist' - so we've taken to explaining it once, then leaving it in Spanish!

[vinteuil]

Amazing how many derogatory/ unpleasant words in English start with sl - slag , slut , slave , slime

... to which you might add sleaze, slobber, sloven, sludge, slur, slurry, slough, Slough, slebs



but don't omit the lovely slight, slim, slender

and other things I like - slake, slate, sleep, slinky, slip, sliver, sloe, sloop, slow, slumber, slope off, sly ...

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