Michel Legrand (1932-2019): 6-10/1/25

[french frank]

surely even diehard original language fundamentalists cannot deny that a theatrical experience is seriously compromised by being given in a language that the great majority of the audience don't understand

You might say 'compromised at least for people who don't understand the language and don't want to put in any effort to understand it'. Do any of your "diehard original language fundamentalists" actually exist anywhere, saying opera should NEVER be performed in a language for which it was not composed? Do you never find opera snobs at a performance of the Merry Widow, The Elixir of Love or The Mastersingers of Nuremberg? Is even expressing the preference for original language opera, at least sometimes, to be derided as snobbery? Your arguments would support ditching all drama on Radio 3: no foisting upon people what they don't appreciate.

[Master Jacques]

Didn’t Peter Hall and Colin Davis lobby for an English sung Marriage of Figaro at Covent Garden once ? Only to be turned down by the powers that be. The “problem “ with the Da Ponte operas is that the text proceeds at such a rate the subtitles skate over a very brilliant surface. A lot of the text is just left untranslated or , worse, even mistranslated .
It’s evident that some people don’t mind missing things , others think that somehow English is second best not “authentic.” The problem is that you then lose quite a bit of the total meaning of the opera - which is of course a musico- theatrical one . Even on disc with crystal clear diction and a libretto - that is very far from the total live experience . Indeed I’m not sure Opera on disc is really opera at all. (And I must have dozens of recordings - very largely left unplayed these days )

Re native languages - The other problem is that some singers diction these days is not that good even in their own language. That Wotan narration though is so well scored even in German every word should be audible esp at Bayreuth with its orchestra cover. The reason I like listening to the Goodall ring is that the diction is consistently good , Goodall favours the singers and has clearly prepared them so you hear all the words - and it’s a live recording. I reckon at Die Walküre in May I’ll be lucky to pick out more than 70 per cent. But having listened in English I reckon I wont need the surtitles so much,

Much wisdom here. I seriously wonder why anyone here could wish to sit through acres of secco recitative in Italian, when they could have it in English. The "oohs and ahs argument" collapses here, though phrasing is still a technical difficulty to overcome.

On Marriage of Figaro, it is worth noting that (if you look through the Covent Garden Archive) it was absolutely normal practice in the 1940s and 1950s for the standard repertory works, by Mozart, Verdi, Wagner and Puccini (let alone rarities such as Janacek or Berg, which were normally done in English) to be given in both languages - first cast, in "original" language with "international" casts, second cast, in English with "home grown" singers. And looking through Opera, quite often these second-cast, English performances eclipsed the big guns on the first nights. Many great English singers got their first major chances in these English-language performances at the Royal Opera.

The rot set in during the late 1960s.

[Ein Heldenleben]

Much wisdom here. I seriously wonder why anyone here could wish to sit through acres of secco recitative in Italian, when they could have it in English. The "oohs and ahs argument" collapses here, though phrasing is still a technical difficulty to overcome.

On Marriage of Figaro, it is worth noting that (if you look through the Covent Garden Archive) it was absolutely normal practice in the 1940s and 1950s for the standard repertory works, by Mozart, Verdi, Wagner and Puccini (let alone rarities such as Janacek or Berg, which were normally done in English) to be given in both languages - first cast, in "original" language with "international" casts, second cast, in English with "home grown" singers. And looking through Opera, quite often these second-cast, English performances eclipsed the big guns on the first nights. Many great English singers got their first major chances in these English-language performances at the Royal Opera.

The rot set in during the late 1960s.

Very interesting. With ENO falling apart that is something I think they should bring back. I bet as you say it was a key factor in development in some stellar careers. Maybe the “in English / British “ casts could be cheaper tickets. The endless procession of goodish international artists at ROH these days means that you never latch on to homespun talent like Geraint Evans , Janet Baker, Elizabeth Harwood and the like.
It would also end this competitive bidding war which I’m told has led to the main roles being “supported “ by some eye watering donations.

[Ein Heldenleben]

You might say 'compromised at least for people who don't understand the language and don't want to put in any effort to understand it'. Do any of your "diehard original language fundamentalists" actually exist anywhere, saying opera should NEVER be performed in a language for which it was not composed? Do you never find opera snobs at a performance of the Merry Widow, The Elixir of Love or The Mastersingers of Nuremberg? Is even expressing the preference for original language opera, at least sometimes, to be derided as snobbery? Your arguments would support ditching all drama on Radio 3: no foisting upon people what they don't appreciate.

I think MJ is right to assert that there are some in the opera world who think opera in English is inauthentic ( I guess it is ) and somehow second best - well that all depends if you favour authenticity over intelligibility and total dramatic effect . And there is definitely an element of snobbery there. I think it would be “very brave”: now to stage La Boheme in English at Covent Garden . I’m pretty certain some powerful people would complain. All I can say is hearing Alberto Remedios sing Act 3 Tristan in English with perfect clarity is an overwhelmingly more satisfying artistic experience than listening to it in German with someone who can’t be clearly heard or understood without reading surtitles of questionable accuracy. And I bet Richard Wagner would agree with me.

[Master Jacques]

You might say 'compromised at least for people who don't understand the language and don't want to put in any effort to understand it'. Do any of your "diehard original language fundamentalists" actually exist anywhere, saying opera should NEVER be performed in a language for which it was not composed? Do you never find opera snobs at a performance of the Merry Widow, The Elixir of Love or The Mastersingers of Nuremberg? Is even expressing the preference for original language opera, at least sometimes, to be derided as snobbery? Your arguments would support ditching all drama on Radio 3: no foisting upon people what they don't appreciate.

As you're first category amounts to 99% of audiences in the UK, that looks pretty conclusive to me. Of course, you outline the absolute necessity for an English National Opera, which is about to be murdered after 100 years of striving.

Your last point reveals the great paradox: in an age of populism, it seems odd to cultivate the "elitist" idea of opera for moneyed snobs in foreign languages ("it's not for you, dear") at the expense of making it comprehensible for all.

(I've put in my complaint to Radio 3 about ditching drama, and hope others will too. Mind you, last time I listened these plays were being performed in English: doubtless if they were in Italian (with voice-over translations over the top?) there would be more of a call for them.)

[Master Jacques]

Maybe the “in English / British “ casts could be cheaper tickets. The endless procession of goodish international artists at ROH these days means that you never latch on to homespun talent like Geraint Evans , Janet Baker, Elizabeth Harwood and the like.
It would also end this competitive bidding war which I’m told has led to the main roles being “supported “ by some eye watering donations.

Yes, I should have stressed that the English-language productions of Mastersingers, Tosca, RIgoletto etc. were indeed much cheaper to attend. It was a good system - rip off the wealthy snobs for first casts, to subsidise 'ordinary' people for the second casts in English. G. Evans, Charles Craig, Michael Langdon, David Ward, Amy Shuard, Harwood, Marie Collier ... you name them, they franked their global careers in those Covent Garden shows. Baker, rather infamously, did it all without the Royal Opera's help, until much later in her career.

The modern bidding wars (American-style) are obscene, I agree.

[Ein Heldenleben]

Yes, I should have stressed that the English-language productions of Mastersingers, Tosca, RIgoletto etc. were indeed much cheaper to attend. It was a good system - rip off the wealthy snobs for first casts, to subsidise 'ordinary' people for the second casts in English. G. Evans, Charles Craig, Michael Langdon, David Ward, Amy Shuard, Harwood, Marie Collier ... you name them, they franked their global careers in those Covent Garden shows. Baker, rather infamously, did it all without the Royal Opera's help, until much later in her career.

The modern bidding wars (American-style) are obscene, I agree.

It occurs to me that one other driver of only original language productions is that it’s more work for a singer to learn the role in two (or more) languages.

Is it wicked of me to think that also learning the role in English might ensure the singers actually know why the words mean in the original language ?

[Master Jacques]

Is it wicked of me to think that also learning the role in English might ensure the singers actually know why the words mean in the original language ?

Ha, perish the thought! I've been out for coffee with a friend, who very much has her finger on the pulse of what goes on in our operatic "training" establishments, which these days attract as many paying foreign students as they have UK ones. She mentioned during our conversation the curious fact, that although these institutions have a long list of language coaches, for Italian, German, French, Spanish, Russian and even Czech, there's one thing missing - language coaching in English!

This rather dovetails with some of the high-falutin' attitudes we've been discussing.