Bernard Haitink at 85 - and Beyond.

[BBMmk2]

Looking forward to Pet’s Haitink birthday concert.

I’m going with

Beethoven: Piano Concerto 4
Alfred Brendel

Shostakovich: Symphony 15

London Philharmonic Orchestra

I went to a concert, at the RFH, with Brendel and the LPO, doing Beethoven’s PC No.4 and Shostakovich’s 4th. Sublime and spellbinding this was.

[Darkbloom]

This is the feeling one gets when listening to some of those 1970s Karajan rehearsal extracts in which he drills the Berlin Phil to the edge of insanity in, for example, a Beethoven symphony that they must have played together many times before, but clearly not to the maestro’s satisfaction.

My experience of over-rehearsal is that it is usually counterproductive. When time constraints necessitate very limited rehearsal, the performance often goes very well, assuming they are a highly competent group of musicians, because everyone is attentively listening to one other and enjoying the freshness of the experience of recreating the score in sound, as well as having to watch the conductor more than usual. Those conductors who try to brow-beat an orchestra or choir into replicating a performance precisely as it had been in rehearsal are IMO deluded and are trying to do something that is innately unmusical. The great Yevgeny Mravinsky, ruler of the Leningrad Phil for forty years, once cancelled that evening’s concert because the rehearsal had contained such an unrepeatably perfect rendition of a symphony (by Bruckner?) that the concert would have been an inevitable failure. After how many rehearsals, I wonder?!

Szell is often mentioned as a conductor who over-rehearsed. That may have had great results in the studio but it often led to anti-climactic concerts when the players had nothing left to give on the night. Rattle is another one who sounds like he worked his players too hard sometimes, especially with the BPO. Karajan wrote an interesting piece about rehearsal, it's included in the appendix to the Osborne bio.

Getting back on topic, I'd nominate the Beethoven Violin Concerto, with Krebbers as soloist. It sums up Haitink's music-making for me, allowing the music to speak without feeling that the conductor is getting in the way.

[visualnickmos]

Szell is often mentioned as a conductor who over-rehearsed. That may have had great results in the studio but it often led to anti-climactic concerts when the players had nothing left to give on the night. Rattle is another one who sounds like he worked his players too hard sometimes, especially with the BPO. Karajan wrote an interesting piece about rehearsal, it's included in the appendix to the Osborne bio.

Getting back on topic, I'd nominate the Beethoven Violin Concerto, with Krebbers as soloist. It sums up Haitink's music-making for me, allowing the music to speak without feeling that the conductor is getting in the way.

Intresting that you say that, as that is, and always has been one reason I admire Haitink so much - the music simply 'speaks' to the listener.....

[Petrushka]

Intresting that you say that, as that is, and always has been one reason I admire Haitink so much - the music simply 'speaks' to the listener.....

This is precisely the reason why Haitink is such a great conductor. He is not interested in the personality cult that so often surrounds the conductor, nor in providing superficial excitement. It is the music that is allowed to speak and his grip on symphonic logic over flashy pyrotechnics has often led to him being called 'dull' or 'dour' when the reality is the opposite. It is also why his recordings can be enjoyed over and over again. You have a feeling that this is 'how it should go' with a Haitink performance.

[BBMmk2]

It’s the way he executes his rehearsals. He just let the orchestra play, with a few gestures hereabd there.

[Conchis]

Haitink is undoubtedly a great conductor, but. (and this is a criticism) he lacks vulgarity. You need to be a kind of vulgarian, or at least have a vulgarian trait you can mien, in order to effectively conduct certain works by certain composers (a lot of Verdi, including the Requiem and some of the early Wagner operas). But I think Haitink recoils from all that (and I can't really blame him) and goes into his default 'understatement' mode.

Even self-described super-elitists like Karajan had this vulgarian gene and could exploit (listen to von K's stunning recording of Cavaleria Rusticana to understand what I mean). But Haitink's 'podium manners' are just too good....

[Darkbloom]

Haitink is undoubtedly a great conductor, but. (and this is a criticism) he lacks vulgarity. You need to be a kind of vulgarian, or at least have a vulgarian trait you can mien, in order to effectively conduct certain works by certain composers (a lot of Verdi, including the Requiem and some of the early Wagner operas). But I think Haitink recoils from all that (and I can't really blame him) and goes into his default 'understatement' mode.

Even self-described super-elitists like Karajan had this vulgarian gene and could exploit (listen to von K's stunning recording of Cavaleria Rusticana to understand what I mean). But Haitink's 'podium manners' are just too good....

I don't expect a conductor to be good at everything. Furtwangler had a pretty narrow range but few these days (it wasn't always the case) would dispute his status as one of the greats, if not the greatest. Haitink is a superb conductor of French music, for example. I don't particularly want to hear him conduct Trovatore anyway. The fastidious side of Haitink is, I think, a great advantage in Mahler, where he can be more dispassionate than others and make you feel you are experiencing the work as a whole rather than bar-by-bar.

[Alison]

I don't expect a conductor to be good at everything. Furtwangler had a pretty narrow range but few these days (it wasn't always the case) would dispute his status as one of the greats, if not the greatest. Haitink is a superb conductor of French music, for example. I don't particularly want to hear him conduct Trovatore anyway. The fastidious side of Haitink is, I think, a great advantage in Mahler, where he can be more dispassionate than others and make you feel you are experiencing the work as a whole rather than bar-by-bar.

Spot on Dark Bloom.

[bluestateprommer]

The LSO has put their program(me) booklet pdf on line for their two Haitink concerts this week, including a slew of tributes from fellow musicians:

https://lso.co.uk/images/pdf/101421-03-Web.pdf

Tonight's LSO concert makes its way to R3 tomorrow, with Martin Handley getting the presenter's call: https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/m000367t

[zola]

Tonight's LSO concert makes its way to R3 tomorrow, with Martin Handley getting the presenter's call: https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/m000367t

Tonight's concert is also streamed live on Medici TV but it isn't yet clear if it will only be available to premium customers.

https://www.medici.tv/en/concerts/bernard-haitink-conducts-mozart-and-bruckner-till-fellner/

[Darkbloom]

Tonight's concert is also streamed live on Medici TV but it isn't yet clear if it will only be available to premium customers.
https://www.medici.tv/en/concerts/be...-till-fellner/

It doesn't matter, it's also streamed on YouTube.

[Petrushka]

It doesn't matter, it's also streamed on YouTube.

Thanks for the alert! I've just been watching this concert live on the LSO youTube channel and a most excellent concert it was too. Available for the next 90 days.

[bluestateprommer]

Some glowing reviews of yesterday's Barbican concert:

Martin Kettle, The Grauniad: https://www.theguardian.com/music/20...-mozart-review

David Nice, The Arts Desk: https://theartsdesk.com/classical-mu...view-master-90

Uncle Bernie is holding court with Martin Handley in the R3 interval feature now, looking back to 1954. Stately, well done Mozart 22 from Till Fellner, the LSO and BH just now.

[Ein Heldenleben]

That was a tremendous concert with some absolutely beautiful horn playing....

[Bryn]

The LSO has put their program(me) booklet pdf on line for their two Haitink concerts this week, including a slew of tributes from fellow musicians:

https://lso.co.uk/images/pdf/101421-03-Web.pdf

Tonight's LSO concert makes its way to R3 tomorrow, with Martin Handley getting the presenter's call: https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/m000367t

The audio from the Medici video stream is at the same 320kbps aac data rate as Radio 3's HD Sound. I look forward to comparing the two.