Definitions - music

[Beef Oven!]

I don't think I can be any more specific than I am above. There are odd contemporary works which are difficult to categorize which I find when dipping in to Hear and Now via iplayer for example and which has to come down to my judgement, but that is an exceptionally small number. As long as I trust my consistency then the statistics will remain consistent in value. The increase has markedly been caused this year by musicals, contemporary film scores, and popular items creeping, the type one would expect on Radio 2.

Yes, it is most important that the year on year comparisons are consistent - that has been achieved and is very interesting to consider. As we're comparing like with like, conclusions can be drawn from the information.

I suppose what nags me is the simple question (in theory) of categories. If we find it difficult to categorise a piece of music, we must first have the definition and parameters of the categories available to apply to the work. Surely?

Maybe classical music can't be defined? If we can't categorise/define classic music, how, in the final analysis, will we know whether more or less of it is being programmed?

[doversoul1]

I suppose what nags me is the simple question (in theory) of categories. If we find it difficult to categorise a piece of music, we must first have the definition and parameters of the categories available to apply to the work. Surely?

Maybe classical music can't be defined? If we can't categorise/define classic music, how, in the final analysis, will we know whether more or less of it is being programmed?

Definition is after all for the convenience of each survey or research. I understand the definition of classical music in SC’s survey to be something like 'the type or types of music that is not part of major output on other BBC radio stations'. I know this can have some fuzzy bits but, as the purpose of the survey is to look at the tendency of the programmes and not to analyze the music itself, I think the way in which SC sets out is perfectly workable.

[Serial_Apologist]

Definition is after all for the convenience of each survey or research. I understand the definition of classical music in SC’s survey to be something like 'the type or types of music that is not part of major output on other BBC radio stations'. I know this can have some fuzzy bits but, as the purpose of the survey is to look at the tendency of the programmes and not to analyze the music itself, I think the way in which SC sets out is perfectly workable.

[Beef Oven!]

I think the way in which SC sets out is perfectly workable.

Indeed, which is exactly what I have said!

And, as I have said, maybe classical music can't be defined by us in this forum.

Perhaps we are unable to come up with a simple definition.

[MrGongGong]

I
Perhaps we are unable to come up with a simple definition.

I did
(but there again, maybe not ? .....)

[Beef Oven!]

I did
(but there again, maybe not ? .....)

Samuel Coleridge-Taylor was not dead.

[MrGongGong]

Samuel Coleridge-Taylor was not dead.

[french frank]

Perhaps we are unable to come up with a simple definition.

Can we define jazz in such a way that we include everything that is jazz and exclude everything that isn't?

[Beef Oven!]

Can we define jazz in such a way that we include everything that is jazz and exclude everything that isn't?

I don't know about that because I was thinking in terms of a simple definition. A starting point maybe.

Or maybe you're just agreeing with me, that we can't do it.

[teamsaint]

I don't know about that because I was thinking in terms of a simple definition. A starting point maybe.

Or maybe you're just agreeing with me, that we can't do it.

Typical Beefy tease.
he has the EXACT definition, (I know cos he PMd it to me*) but he's just watching the rest of us struggle for a while.
Nice one Beefy !!










*he didn't really

[french frank]

Well, if you want a starting point: the forms of European notated/scored music pre-1900 (could make it a bit earlier). The idea would be to cut out jazz, film music, any sort of pop/rock, as being later; and folk music as being not 'notated' or scored. But folk tune arrangements, variations would be included. You would also exclude Great American Songbook and Broadway musicals.

[Beef Oven!]

Well, if you want a starting point: the forms of European notated/scored music pre-1900 (could make it a bit earlier). The idea would be to cut out jazz, film music, any sort of pop/rock, as being later; and folk music as being not 'notated' or scored. But folk tune arrangements, variations would be included. You would also exclude Great American Songbook and Broadway musicals.

A good starting point, IMV.

I would suggest a principle of 'ruling in', rather than 'ruling out'. So as far as Jazz goes, I'd be looking to rule it into a definition of Jazz by including something about it being an American/African form of music originating in the very beginning of the 20th century, combining African and European harmony and form etc, etc (heavily wiki that).

[ferneyhoughgeliebte]

"Pre-1900"???!!!

"Could make it a bit earlier"???????!!!!!!!!

[french frank]

"Pre-1900"???!!!

"Could make it a bit earlier"???????!!!!!!!!

Your problem? Bearing in mind exactly what was written ...

[ferneyhoughgeliebte]

... I mean, for a start, that's all of suffy's favourite composers ruled out at a stroke - even RW hasn't been that neglectful of them!