Musical questions and answers thread

[MrGongGong]

MrGG, do you really prefer your natural horn with no attempt to keep the dodgier natural harmonics in tune by judicious hand-stopping?

If so, that really is super-Norringtonian authenticity Just don't invite me to the performance, OK?

You only regard them as "dodgy" because you have been indoctrinated by equal temperament

Nothing wrong with this

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2QGUxjbgioY

[LeMartinPecheur]

You only regard them as "dodgy" because you have been indoctrinated by equal temperament

Temperament?? I'll give you temperament...

[Serial_Apologist]

Temperament?? I'll give you temperament...

Next you'll be flying off the Handel!

[LeMartinPecheur]

Next you'll be flying off the Handel!

Hmmm, Fireworks??

Or Il Moderato???

[Alison]

New question: do composers mostly work on one piece at a time?

[MrGongGong]

New question: do composers mostly work on one piece at a time?

Yes
and
No
and
there's only one piece
and
there are many pieces
and
what's a "piece"
and

[ferneyhoughgeliebte]

New question: do composers mostly work on one piece at a time?

I suppose it depends on each composer - and the nature of the work. I think it seems that most composers do concentrate on one-at-a-time; there are examples of idea for other pieces occurring whilst at work on another: Stravinsky getting the first ideas for The Rite "whilst [he] was still at work on The Firebird" - and then interrupting the Rite in order to compose Petrushka; Wagner interrupting work on The Ring to write first Die Meistersinger and then Tristan; Beethoven interrupting work on the Fifth Symphony to write the Fourth; Berg interrupting work on Lulu to write the Violin Concerto. These tend to show that either initial sketches are put aside in order to finish the work already in progress, or the work-in-progress is put aside to concentrate on the new idea, rather than the composers working on two different works over the same period.

One of the great pities that Roehre isn't contributing here is that he could tell us whether Beethoven's sketchbooks show any evidence that he (LvB!) ever did simultaneous work on two "serious" pieces) - it's possible that jobbing kappelmeisters in the 18th Century had to do this as a matter of course. But the idea of a full-time and exclusive composer is a relative novelty: most composers had (and have) to do other work in order to secure a living: usually teaching (not just Music teaching - Bach's contract included teaching Latin) and/or performing as well. To work on more than one major composing project in addition to these extra commitments would create serious stress - but, if it earned much-needed income in pre-state (or any) pension conditions, now doubt it would/does happen.

James MacMillan has said in public that he can have two or three projects "in hand" but he only works on each, one at a time. (And with Schönberg, composition had to be devoted intensely and exclusively to an individual project: any interruptions often led to the project being abandoned as a torso - as with Die Jakobsleiter and Moses und Aron .)

[Richard Barrett]

New question: do composers mostly work on one piece at a time?

I would think there are almost as many answers as composers!

For me the answer is not at all - there's usually some kind of deadline, sometimes self-imposed, which determines which project the everyday work is concentrating on, although this might have to be interrupted for work on something else, for example in a studio, or having practical meetings with a performer concerning techniques to be used in some future work, or revisions/corrections of older pieces (not to mention teaching and/or performing and/or writing and/or working on recordings); and aside from that there's usually other activity in connection with other future projects in various states of vagueness/precision, to which new ideas might accrue at any time. For example at the moment I'm working principally on a piece for solo harp, which will be finished in a couple of weeks and is to be incorporated into a sextet which I'm also accumulating material for, including electronic sounds, but I'm also making notes towards a piece for orchestra which I'll be concentrating on later in the year and one or two other things. Apart from which the notebooks are full of momentary ideas which might find their way into the current project, or a future one, or nowhere. Sometimes it all seems like one enormous composition. The challenge is to find ways of channelling all the energy, ideas and materials so as to use working time most productively, which isn't to say that sometimes hours or days can be spent seemingly achieving nothing, and when that happens I try to switch my attention from the work in hand onto something else.

[Alison]

Interesting.

I only knew of the Stravinsky examples. Very comprehensive answer Ferney!
Yes what a shame about Roehre.

Fascinating insight from Richard. The solo harp piece sounds intriguing.

[ferneyhoughgeliebte]

Very comprehensive answer Ferney!

Erratum: swap Die Meistersinger and Tristan & Isolde around.

Fascinating insight from Richard. The solo harp piece sounds intriguing.

[Pabmusic]

I suppose it depends on each composer - and the nature of the work. I think it seems that most composers do concentrate on one-at-a-time; there are examples of idea for other pieces occurring whilst at work on another: Stravinsky getting the first ideas for The Rite "whilst [he] was still at work on The Firebird" - and then interrupting the Rite in order to compose Petrushka; Wagner interrupting work on The Ring to write first Die Meistersinger and then Tristan; Beethoven interrupting work on the Fifth Symphony to write the Fourth; Berg interrupting work on Lulu to write the Violin Concerto. These tend to show that either initial sketches are put aside in order to finish the work already in progress, or the work-in-progress is put aside to concentrate on the new idea, rather than the composers working on two different works over the same period.

One of the great pities that Roehre isn't contributing here is that he could tell us whether Beethoven's sketchbooks show any evidence that he (LvB!) ever did simultaneous work on two "serious" pieces) - it's possible that jobbing kappelmeisters in the 18th Century had to do this as a matter of course. But the idea of a full-time and exclusive composer is a relative novelty: most composers had (and have) to do other work in order to secure a living: usually teaching (not just Music teaching - Bach's contract included teaching Latin) and/or performing as well. To work on more than one major composing project in addition to these extra commitments would create serious stress - but, if it earned much-needed income in pre-state (or any) pension conditions, now doubt it would/does happen.

James MacMillan has said in public that he can have two or three projects "in hand" but he only works on each, one at a time. (And with Schönberg, composition had to be devoted intensely and exclusively to an individual project: any interruptions often led to the project being abandoned as a torso - as with Die Jakobsleiter and Moses und Aron .)

Lovely answer.

I am (almost) certain that the Fifth and Sixth symphonies were simultaneously composed in 1808. In a way, you can tell: it's as if LvB uses one to try out ideas for the other, or to contrast them (join two movements in 5? maybe three in 6?; symphonic trombones and piccolo in 6? how about a contrabassoon and a bass trom as well in 5? ; wholly picturesque storytelling in one? severely abstract intellectualism in the other).

[ferneyhoughgeliebte]

I am (almost) certain that the Fifth and Sixth symphonies were simultaneously composed in 1808. In a way, you can tell: it's as if LvB uses one to try out ideas for the other, or to contrast them (join two movements in 5? maybe three in 6?; symphonic trombones and piccolo in 6? how about a contrabassoon and a bass trom as well in 5? ; wholly picturesque storytelling in one? severely abstract intellectualism in the other).

I think that LvB began the Fifth (as his "Fourth"), got stuck, so broke of work and wrote the "real" Fourth before returning to the Fifth. I think you may be right about then concurrently writing the Pastoral - they were certainly both premiered in the same concert. (And this is where Roehre is so sorely missed - it was he who pointed out that the Pastroral was played before the Fifth, so that what was intended to be Beethoven's Fourth, and which we call his Fifth, was actually the Sixth to be first heard!

[Pabmusic]

I think that LvB began the Fifth (as his "Fourth"), got stuck, so broke of work and wrote the "real" Fourth before returning to the Fifth. I think you may be right about then concurrently writing the Pastoral - they were certainly both premiered in the same concert. (And this is where Roehre is so sorely missed - it was he who pointed out that the Pastroral was played before the Fifth, so that what was intended to be Beethoven's Fourth, and which we call his Fifth, was actually the Sixth to be first heard!

Yes, that's right. The Pastoral was played as no. 5.

LvB didn't get stuck over no. 5, though. He began it as (in a sense) no. 4, but got sidetracked. Here's the start of a programme note for no. 4 I wrote for a concert in 2010:

Beethoven had already started his symphony in C minor (No. 5) in 1806,when he put it aside to write this one. What caused the change of heart was probably money: a commission from Franz, Graf von Oppersdorff. We do not know this for certain, but the composer had spent time that summer at the count’s castle in Silesia, and he received 500 florins from Oppersdorff the next February “for a symphony I have written for him”. The count got little for his money, though, but promises. It seems he may actually have been promised both the fourth and fifth symphonies, only to receive a letter from the composer after the first performance in November 1807, telling him that “necessity has forced me to sell to another the symphony I wrote for you and another one, too”. Beethoven added, “You will probably have formed an unfavourable impression of me!

[ferneyhoughgeliebte]

But couldn't Beethoven have just "sold" von Oppersdorff the Fifth? ("That was quick, Ludo!" "Well - your commissions always inspire me!" sort-of thing.)

[Pabmusic]

But couldn't Beethoven have just "sold" von Oppersdorff the Fifth? ("That was quick, Ludo!" "Well - your commissions always inspire me!" sort-of thing.)

Well I've no idea.