Musical questions and answers thread

[ferneyhoughgeliebte]

Heard it before, of course, but it bears repeating here!

Something the maestro never said about the Exposition of the Eroica, alas!

[EdgeleyRob]

Ferney is quite right. Sinfonia = sounding together. Initially it meant nothing more than the b******g obvious - a number of 'independent' lines played at the same time (as in JSB's case). In other words, it emphasises the contrapuntal nature of something.

Quite quickly, though, it began to be used for any piece for multiple instruments, especially for the instrumental introduction to choral and operatic works. The French had their own word for these - ouverture (opening) - and it wasn't long before the two were synonymous. They also became sylised as three-movement works with the first movement in one of two forms: with a slow introduction that usually returned (the French overture); or getting straight into the action (the Italian). The 18th Century is replete with sinfonias and ouvertures, and there's usually nothing to distinguish them. William Boyce published his Eight Symphonys in Eight Parts and Twelve Overtures in Seven, Nine, Ten and Twelve Parts in 1760 and 1770 respecitively, but he could just as easily have called them all 'symphonys' or 'overtures'. (In fact they were all 'overtures' to choral or stage works.)

But as the second half of the 17th Century progressed, sinfonia (or the German sinfonie) became applied more and more to a stand-alone work based on the earlier sinfonia or ouverture - three or (with the addition of a minuet) four movements. German-speaking composers then used ouverture for stage works.

In truth, it's nothing like as neat as this. Composers (or publishers) had their own preferences anyway, and sometimes the names were used in a deliberately anachronistic way. Stravinsky's 1920 Symphonies of Wind Instruments is an example.

It's a lot to do with what composers started calling pieces in the Seventeenth & Eighteenth Centuries, when people increasingly gave up playing Music themselves and began paying Musicians to play it for them - from consorts of amateurs to concerts given by professionals, a neat differentiation from LMP. Especially with instrumental Music - what do you call a piece that neither includes words nor is meant to be danced to? So we get "Sonata" - a "sounding piece" (for instruments) as distinct from "Cantata" - a "sung piece"; instruments were playing together as a consort, so (as this was all happening in Italy and France) we get "Concerto" (an piece to be played "in [a] concert") and if a large number of players were involved, it would be a "big concerto" (Concerto Grosso) - added to what Pabs has said about "Overture" (the opening to an act of an opera or a section of a vocal/choral work) and "Sinfonia" (the bits in an opera or vocal/choral work played by the instrumentalists) the names were banded around in those early days. Only later did conventions (about the number of movements, the distinction between soloist and orchestra, the structure/"Form" of Movements) become "settled" - all in order to make sense of Music that didn't have words or dance moves involved.

"Orchestra" is another etymological pleasure - it originates in designs of theatres in the Seventeenth Century based on what they thought the ancient Greek stage looked like. The bit at the front of the stage where the dancing took place was called the "orkhestra" - "orkhestei" = "to dance" + "tra" = "place": and as this was the most practical convenient place to put the instrumentalists, that's what they as a group became called. (Three centuries on, and we'd be talking about "the Berlin Philharmonic Disco".)

Or even "the Disco of the Age of the Enlightenment"!)

Pabs and ferney,many thanks

[Eine Alpensinfonie]

A grand piano has a far simpler mechanism than an upright piano. Yet even the smallest grand in a manufacturer's range will generally cost more than the best upright.

I've asked piano technicians why this should be so, but none has come up with an answer.

Can anyone here help?

[teamsaint]

A grand piano has a far simpler mechanism than an upright piano. Yet even the smallest grand in a manufacturer's range will generally cost more than the best upright.

I've asked piano technicians why this should be so, but none has come up with an answer.

Can anyone here help?

I 'm pretty certain its just down to regular business stuff, Alpie.

Costs really do plummet with economies of scale and bulk purchasing. ( Check out those massive full colour books in WH Smith at £5 selling price right now for confirmation. ).

Uprights are a mass market. I reckon they outsell Grands maybe 20 to one ? probably more. So the action for a grand may be simpler, but the orders for upright actions( or components) will be much bigger, and likely come out cheaper than those for grands.
On top of that, Grands will be a lot more expensive to store and transport, and there will be a lot more component cost outside of the action, and probably even base models will be relatively high spec.

I don't know what the retailers mark up is, but I guess it will be double, or double plus VAT, which is a common level. But they likely cut their margin on the bulk lines like basic uprights, to get cashflow, and capture the big markets.

If somebody can find a mass market for Grands, the price will drop.

http://www.google.co.uk/patents/US2505804

[doversoul1]

Apologies for not terribly musical question but while the subject is the piano, how do piano students or children for that matter living in towns practise these days? I have seen one of those electric (electrical?) pianos with a headphone but I wasn’t very impressed.

[french frank]

Apologies for not terribly musical question but while the subject is the piano, how do piano students or children for that matter living in towns practise these days? I have seen one of those electric (electrical?) pianos with a headphone but I wasn’t very impressed.

The Music Director of HTV (as was) lived in a terrace house near me, and he had an electronic piano for practising at home. But there are also several piano teachers round here - they just give lessons in their homes on ordinary pianos.

[ferneyhoughgeliebte]

Students practice on whatever is available to them, and according to the Music they wish to play. Electric keyboards are useful even to "Classical" students (for finger work), and is often the only keyboard to which they have regular access - to get the "feel" of the action of a non-electric Piano, many have to rely on what's available in their Schools.

[doversoul1]

Sorry, I didn’t make the point clear. I was wondering how piano students (or for that matter, any music students) cope with what ‘potentially (sorry, Pab)’ is a noise nuisance to their neighbours when they practise at home.

[ferneyhoughgeliebte]

Sorry, I didn’t make the point clear. I was wondering how piano students (or for that matter, any music students) cope with what ‘potentially (sorry, Pab)’ is a noise nuisance to their neighbours when they practise at home.

This has always been a possible cause of neighbourly discord - electric keyboards can reduce/remove such discontent with the budding ivory-tickler: as can the family on the other side of the neighbour whose kid is learning drums! Otherwise, it's been a general matter for mutual tolerance - as long as the practice doesn't happen at 5:00am, neighbours put up with each other's behaviour.

[Eine Alpensinfonie]

Apologies for not terribly musical question but while the subject is the piano, how do piano students or children for that matter living in towns practise these days? I have seen one of those electric (electrical?) pianos with a headphone but I wasn’t very impressed.

Some of the electric pianos are actually pretty good, but the price of these may exceed the cost of a decent real piano.

The Yamaha Avant Grand costs around £13,000 without either a frame or a string (though there are hammers).

[Lat-Literal]

Sorry, I didn’t make the point clear. I was wondering how piano students (or for that matter, any music students) cope with what ‘potentially (sorry, Pab)’ is a noise nuisance to their neighbours when they practise at home.

This is very easy having experienced the entire spectrum.

Crashing doors/windows, shouting/arguments, banging on party walls/using them as footie goalposts, post night club karaoke, current chart music, crass tv/radio, DIY efforts - insufferable. Loud chatter - neutral-ish. Dogs barking, motorbikes, piano, brass band records, drum kits, opera singers doing voice training (yes, I had one) - on balance, a plus.

[Pabmusic]

Sorry, I didn’t make the point clear. I was wondering how piano students (or for that matter, any music students) cope with what ‘potentially (sorry, Pab)’ is a noise nuisance to their neighbours when they practise at home.

[Pianoman]

Mm, it can cause issues

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/11672588/Young-Musician-of-the-Year-finalist-hit-with-council-ban-following-noise-complaint.html

or worse...

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/spain/10445494/Spanish-pianist-facing-jail-for-noise-pollution.html

[teamsaint]

So, any progress on why Alpie's shopping trips for grand pianos are so costly then?

[Serial_Apologist]

So, any progress on why Alpie's shopping trips for grand pianos are so costly then?

We're all searching for the key.