Musical questions and answers thread

[EdgeleyRob]

What is the difference between a cantata and an oratorio ?

[Alison]

Roehre, my sincerest apologies for not acknowledging. It was a brilliant answer, just what I wanted in fact - and a lot more.

I suppose there was so much to take in and reflect upon that I was somehow distracted from a cheap and cheerful response but that is a poor excuse indeed. At least others noted their gratitude.

Poor show Alison.

[Roehre]

Roehre, my sincerest apologies for not acknowledging. It was a brilliant answer, just what I wanted in fact - and a lot more.

I suppose there was so much to take in and reflect upon that I was somehow distracted from a cheap and cheerful response but that is a poor excuse indeed. At least others noted their gratitude.

Poor show Alison.

(I've restored the original text, slightly amended)

[Alison]

(I've restored the original text, slightly amended)

Huge thanks again. I love your love of Beethoven

[Eine Alpensinfonie]

What is the difference between a cantata and an oratorio ?

It's not clear cut. Cantatas tend to be shorter and can be secular, but Elgar's Caractacus is nominally a cantata and is a full concert work.

Bach's Christmas Oratorio is in reality 6 cantatas.. His Easter Oratorio is really a cantata.

Oratorios usually use biblical texts, but The Dream od Gerontius is set to a 19th century poem.

A clear answer is well nigh impossible.

[Roehre]

What is the difference between a cantata and an oratorio ?

Hardly, with one notable exception: an oratorio is by definition based on a biblical subject, though not necessarily on biblical texts (e.g. both Haydn's oratorios, all of Handel's -though these are actually opera's not meant for a stage , Elgar's Dream),
while cantatas are used to set both sacred (or texts meant for use in liturgies, like JSBach's) or secular texts.

The latter can cover a whole range of subjects, from coffee houses (Bach Kaffeekantate) to memorials for deceased emperors (Beethoven: Cantate auf den Tod Kaisers Leopold II WoO 89), as wedding present (Brahms: Kleine Hochzeitskantate BW-WoO 16), or even as part of an opera (Schnittke: Seid nüchtern und Wachet (Faust-Kantate).

Hence: an oratorio might be named/called a cantata, but vice versa that's not true.

Both cantatas and oratorios can be rather short or to the contrary evening filling works, though oratorios generally tend to be longer works.

[EdgeleyRob]

Roehre and EA,many thanks for the replies.
So a concert performance of an opera could be pretty much classed as an oratorio.

[Eine Alpensinfonie]

Roehre and EA,many thanks for the replies.
So a concert performance of an opera could be pretty much classed as an oratorio.

I suppose so. Elgar's Caractacus actually has stage cues in the score, but to date it hasn't been performed as an opera.

[Serial_Apologist]

And I suppose the difference between a madrigal and a madrigal could be described as Monteverdi!

Or did others get in beforehand with extending the genre to quasi-operatic proportions?

[Roehre]

Roehre and EA,many thanks for the replies.
So a concert performance of an opera could be pretty much classed as an oratorio.

Apart from the subjects, but Stravinsky did so in his Oedipus Rex, which he called an Opera-Oratorio (and one of the very few works NOT based on a biblical subject, but called an oratorio because of the use of Latin, btw)

[EdgeleyRob]

Thanks again guys.
Trust Stravinsky to write an Opera-Oratorio.
I wonder if there's an Opera-Oratorio-Cantata out there.

[Pabmusic]

...Elgar's Dream)...

Hence: an oratorio might be named/called a cantata, but vice versa that's not true.

Both cantatas and oratorios can be rather short or to the contrary evening filling works, though oratorios generally tend to be longer works.

Excelent answer, Roehre. Elgar did not, apparently, like the Dream being called an oratorio (neither the full score nor the vocal score includes the word) but that was probably to distinguish it from other Victorian works.

[mercia]

when the St Matthew Passion is staged does it become an opera ?

[Pabmusic]

when the St Matthew Passion is staged does it become an opera ?

Interesting question. We're really just talking about labels - there's nothing intrisic about 'opera' that requires it to be (for instance) staged. We've just agreed (sort of) to use the word to describe what generally happens. We use a singular version of the same word - opus - in an entirely different way, just because we do.

[Suffolkcoastal]

I don't think every Oratorio is on a Biblical texts, though the texts are normally of a religious or spiritual text, like Dvorak: St Ludmila. What about Tippett's A Child of Our Time, which is normally classed as an Oratorio. Then there are works such as Honegger's Joan of Arc or Martinu's Epic of Gilgamesh, and what genre does Schumann's Scenes from Goethe's Faust come under? Tricky one this, in some respects.