Musical questions and answers thread

[Serial_Apologist]

But not even as useful as diminished sevenths (ie: rootless dominant minor ninths).

Like, taking ferney's dominant G, a chord of G natural, B flat, D flat, E natural, and getting the first inversion by taking the bottom G natural and placing it at the top, etc? Very Tchaikovsky, sequencing that up the keyboard as arpeggios!

[Eine Alpensinfonie]

Now, onto diminished chord inversions!

They are a bit like whole-tone scale inversions. Or even chromatic scale inversions.

[Serial_Apologist]

They are a bit like whole-tone scale inversions. Or even chromatic scale inversions.

In other words the same in either "direction", or symmetrical, if I understand correctly. Or have I got this completely wrong?!

[ferneyhoughgeliebte]

In other words the same in either "direction", or symmetrical, if I understand correctly. Or have I got this completely wrong?!

No, that's right. And if you play two different diminished sevenths alternately, you get the Octotonic scale (or Messiaen's Second Mode of Limited Transposition) so beloved of Rimsky, Stravinsky and (according to Louis Andriesson) every Dutch composer from 1920 - 1970!

C, D,Eb, F,Gb,Ab,A,B

[Serial_Apologist]

No, that's right. And if you play two different diminished triads alternately, you get the Octotonic scale (or Messiaen's Second Mode of Limited Transposition) so beloved of Rimsky, Stravinsky and (according to Louis Andriesson) every Dutch composer from 1920 - 1970!

C, D,Eb, F,Gb,Ab,A,B

Hooray! Thanks again!

[Richard Barrett]

triads in second inversion seem to take their "identity" from the bass note, so a C major triad in second inversion (with G in the Bass) can sound like a G major chord with a double suspension or appoggiatura over the "root". This is the basis of the Ic - V - I cadence.

I don't understand this modern music.

[verismissimo]

I don't understand this modern music.

Yeah. Right.

[Richard Barrett]

Yeah. Right.

Only kidding... but actually, imagine that someone posted something like that about the workings of serial composition, you'd very likely get responses as to how obscure and abstract the whole business is!

[Eine Alpensinfonie]

Only kidding... but actually, imagine that someone posted something like that about the workings of serial composition, you'd very likely get responses as to how obscure and abstract the whole business is!

Serialism is much simpler in terms of theory.

[Richard Barrett]

Serialism is much simpler in terms of theory.

It can be, and was in Schoenberg's original formulation, but so of course can tonality. It can also (like tonality) be a complexly-interconnected universe of musical relationships on many different levels, as for example in something like Stockhausen's Klavierstück X, and maybe I should add for the doubters that yes, you can hear this, although it might not be that easy to be analytically precise about what you hear, any more than it is in late 19th century tonal music (or Strauss!).

[ferneyhoughgeliebte]

Serialism is much simpler in terms of theory.

Go on then - Hexachordal Combinatoriality by Inversion.

[Eine Alpensinfonie]

You've got me there. I had to look it up.

[amateur51]

Go on then - Hexachordal Combinatoriality by Inversion.

Is that by Anne Inversion (one of the Shropshire side of the Inversion family)?

[Richard Barrett]

Is that by Anne Inversion (one of the Shropshire side of the Inversion family)?

Typical - using any excuse to promote Inversion on the Radio 3 Forum.

[Serial_Apologist]

Is that by Anne Inversion (one of the Shropshire side of the Inversion family)?

No it's what used to be called six of the best before caning was abolished.