Musical questions and answers thread

[ferneyhoughgeliebte]

This works for some, but can result in pupils saying, "I can only play it if I know how it goes." In other words, "I can't be bothered to work out the rhythm from the notation."

But doesn't this mean that they haven't "THEN learned notation"?

Aren't there similarities with learning language - we learn first the rudiments of speech & talking, then start to learn how read and write - powers of literacy and communication developing through life; each feeding off the other?

[Richard Barrett]

Unlike writing them, which is child's play, eh?

There are people who say, ‘If music’s that easy to write, I could do it.’ Of course they could, but they don’t. I find Feldman’s own statement more affirmative. We were driving back from some place in New England where a concert had been given. He is a large man and falls asleep easily. Out of a sound sleep, he awoke to say, ‘Now that things are so simple, there’s so much to do.’ And then he went back to sleep. (John Milton Cage Jr)

[Eine Alpensinfonie]

When we learn to sing, we generally do so by ear. However, when learning an instrument, there are technical issues that interfere with the natural relationship between notes on most instruments. The saxophone is a possible exception, with its very easy fingering system, making it ideal as an instrument for improvisation. A clarinet has far more complex fingering, so playing by ear is less natural; an ability to read the notes assists understanding in this case.

[EdgeleyRob]

You guys never fail.
Such incredible knowledge,I am in awe.
Quite a bit to take in but many thanks all for taking the time and trouble to contribute to my musical education.
For what it's worth I though EA's tune was the opening of Beethoven's Violin Concerto.
Transposing instruments,seems like it's all down to the size of yer tube.

[MrGongGong]

When we learn to sing, we generally do so by ear. However, when learning an instrument, there are technical issues that interfere with the natural relationship between notes on most instruments. The saxophone is a possible exception, with its very easy fingering system, making it ideal as an instrument for improvisation. A clarinet has far more complex fingering, so playing by ear is less natural; an ability to read the notes assists understanding in this case.

humm
I would say to some degree yes
but reading notation doesn't always assist with the ability to play well.

There is a danger of obsessing about notation as the only way to make music
as well as the idea (like Macca and chums) that somehow it stifles creativity
somewhere in between is probably the place to be IMV

The problem with learning notation along with an instrument, as I did as a child, is that unless one has a really good teacher the learning curves for each activity don't coincide resulting in boredom or frustration. If I sit down at the piano with a piece of Messiaen I can read it fluently and know how it sounds but my technique is no where near being able to play it even at 1/4 speed.

[Suffolkcoastal]

Bit late to this one, but when orchestrating, I always transpose, its good for the brain I think, though I hate Clarinets in A, the minor 3rd is one I have to think about more than straightforward B flat or F transpositions. I also use the various clefs where necessary, the tenor clef is also used by the Double Bass, so had to learn to read that in my bass playing days.

[Eine Alpensinfonie]

If I sit down at the piano with a piece of Messiaen I can read it fluently and know how it sounds but my technique is no where near being able to play it even at 1/4 speed.

Surely that stands the argument on its head?

[Eine Alpensinfonie]

Here's one that puzzles me. In Britain and America, piston valve trumpets are predominant, but on the European mainland, rotary valved instruments are almost universal. Why is this and which are "better" overall?

[Richard Barrett]

Here's one that puzzles me. In Britain and America, piston valve trumpets are predominant, but on the European mainland, rotary valved instruments are almost universal. Why is this and which are "better" overall?

As I understand it, rotary valves facilitate more smoothness in legato and trills, but instruments with rotary valves generally often also have other features like a smaller bore which give them a "warmer" or more "rounded" sound than the more incisive quality of the wider-bored piston valve instrument, which you hear often quite clearly in the difference between US and UK (and French) orchestras on the one hand, and the rest of Europe on the other. Piston valve instruments are also cheaper, all other things being equal, because the mechanism is simpler. The geographical divide seems not to apply outside orchestral music, though. I don't think I've ever seen a jazz/improvised music player using a rotary-valve trumpet, even in Germany. If there are any trumpeters here they can no doubt go into greater detail and I'd welcome any corrections to my general impressions as described.

[Thropplenoggin]

Why do modern piano virtuosos not also compose?

Bach, Mozart, Beethoven, Chopin, Liszt, Mahler (initially), Rachmaninov, Debussy, Ravel...pianist-composers. Why has this phenomenon stopped?

--

Incidentally, a contemporary conductor-composer was on R4 yesterday: Ivan Fischer, conductor of the Budapest Festival Orchestra, was discussing his opera and anti-Semitism: 'Hungary's Crusading Conductor'.

[ferneyhoughgeliebte]

Jonathan Powell, Michael Finnissy - both splendid composers and phenomenal ivory ticklers (or "phenomenal composers and splendid ivory ticklers"). George Benjamin's no mean Pianist, either.

And Stephen Hough - which might make one thankful for small mercies.

[Sir Velo]

to say nothing of Olivier Messiaen; Benjamin Britten; John Ogdon and John McCabe .....

[Thropplenoggin]

to say nothing of Olivier Messiaen; Benjamin Britten; John Ogdon and John McCabe .....

I should have used the word contemporary, I suppose. The current crop of virtuosi.

[Sir Velo]

Isn't Mustonen a composer-pianist? Hough likewise. Whether they are of the calibre of those of yesteryear is moot but the breed lives on.

[kea]

Jonathan Powell, Michael Finnissy - both splendid composers and phenomenal ivory ticklers (or "phenomenal composers and splendid ivory ticklers"). George Benjamin's no mean Pianist, either.

And Stephen Hough - which might make one thankful for small mercies.

Frederic Rzewski, Steffen Schleiermacher, Michaël Lévinas, ... Marc-André Hamelin?

I think I have a reasonably good idea of why performers stopped learning to improvise or compose, but I'm not sure when or why composers stopped being more than just somewhat proficient with an instrument.