Musical questions and answers thread

[amateur51]

As the Parisians call the coffee shop chain.

Lovely if expensive sourdough bread too

[Roehre]

But Maxwell is not part of his surname. It is one of his forenames (his middle name). Do you file Harrison Birtwistle under "P"? "Paul" is, after all, a perfectly good surname, e.g. Les Paul.

No, as I even didn't know Birtwistle's middle name .
But on the continent e.g. Harrison Paul Birtwistle is Birtwistle and Peter Maxwell Davies is Maxwell Davies.

[Sir Velo]

No, as I even didn't know Birtwistle's middle name .
But on the continent e.g. Harrison Paul Birtwistle is Birtwistle and Peter Maxwell Davies is Maxwell Davies.

So presumably Bernd Alois Zimmermann goes under "A" in your collection; Hans Werner Henze under "W" and you'd file John Eliot Gardiner under "E" when arranging works by conductor?

[french frank]

Mine are under "M", as Maxwell is a perfect surname, contrary to Amadeus or Harry.

Even in his day, he was known as 'Mozart' (the other one was called 'Leopold Mozart', filed under Mozart, L). In the case of Continongtals, the double-barrelled Christian names are more frequent, especially with Jean-Baptiste, François-Xavier, Johann Nepomuk &c (though I do cherish the memory of attending a Chelsea pary once where Stephen John was introduced to John Robert: SJ, this is JR, JR - SJ, rather than Steve, this is Johnny).

If you're filing for yourself, no problem: you file it in how you are most likely to look for it, correct or incorrect.

My difficulty is with titles. I have a reluctance to use a title until people have been deceased for some years, and not always then. Sir Thomas Beecham (or Beecham), but Max Davies (for clarity) and Birtwistle.

If they're still alive I regard the name without the title as the 'professional' name. Emma Kirkby. John Eliot Gardner.

[Roehre]

So presumably Bernd Alois Zimmermann goes under "A" in your collection; Hans Werner Henze under "W" and you'd file John Eliot Gardiner under "E" when arranging works by conductor?

Of course they are, as Beethoven is under Van as is usual under American alphabetical convention of foreign names, Haydn under Joseph as that's his middle name and Schubert under the P from Peter.
And I don't do conductors in my files as I am interested in Beethoven's ninth and not in Karajan's or whoever is the guy possibly in charge of the orchestra, so no mention of JEG at all, not under Elliot nor Gardiner.

I do think this reaction of Sir Velo's is the kind which might be make reconsidering contributing here.

[Ferretfancy]

Shouldn't all this be in Pedants Paradise ?

[amateur51]

Shouldn't all this be in Pedants Paradise ?

[cloughie]

Quite; but why? Did "Davies" not sound remarkable enough at the start of his career. And why just him? Mozart is never filed under "A", no matter how "pleasurable, rhythmically, syllabically [?] and sonorously ... richly layered" some people find the name he never used.


Again, Why? Is it just good old-fashioned English snobbery?


Lutos said something very similar to me in one of our conversations.

There are/were a few Davis and Davies in the music world - Colin, Andrew, Carl, Meredith so maybe he wanted to stand out.

[Serial_Apologist]

Does anyone know if there exists an "authoritative" listing for Havergal Brian's symphonies?

The reason for my asking is that I have taped recordings from BBC broadcasts at various points over time, from about 1967, and in many cases of listening these do not appear to accord with the numbered symphonies as referred to in Simpson's "The Symphony". I do know that at least one re-numbering has been undertaken. I'd like if possible to get the numbering and dates of composition right for my filing system.

[french frank]

Who's Who has him listed as Maxwell Davies, Sir Peter. Usually the articles are drawn up and verified by the subjects themselves, which suggests that that is how he prefers to be listed. But it's a free world - people may do as they wish ...

(It's Musical Pedants' Paradise)

[Roehre]

Does anyone know if there exists an "authoritative" listing for Havergal Brian's symphonies?

The reason for my asking is that I have taped recordings from BBC broadcasts at various points over time, from about 1967, and in many cases of listening these do not appear to accord with the numbered symphonies as referred to in Simpson's "The Symphony". I do know that at least one re-numbering has been undertaken. I'd like if possible to get the numbering and dates of composition right for my filing system.

.

Whether it is or isn't an "authorative" list, I don't know (though I suspect it actually is, and use it as such):
M.MacDonald The Symphonies of Havergal Brian, 3 vols (1974, 1978 and 1983), which AFAIK is used by the HBsociety in its Newsletter (since 1975)

M. MacDonald: "The symphonies of Havergal Brian. Volume 1: Symphonies 1-12". Kahn and Averill, London (1974), ISBN 0 900707 28 3
M. MacDonald: "The symphonies of Havergal Brian. Volume 2: Symphonies 13-29". Kahn and Averill, London (1978), ISBN 0 900707 43 7
M. MacDonald: "The symphonies of Havergal Brian. Volume 3: Symphonies 30-22, survey and summing up". Kahn and Averill, London (1983), ISBN 0-8008-7530-3

[Serial_Apologist]

Whether it is or isn't an "authorative" list, I don't know (though I suspect it actually is, and use it as such):
M.MacDonald The Symphonies of Havergal Brian, 3 vols (1974, 1978 and 1983), which AFAIK is used by the HBsociety in its Newsletter (since 1975)

M. MacDonald: "The symphonies of Havergal Brian. Volume 1: Symphonies 1-12". Kahn and Averill, London (1974), ISBN 0 900707 28 3
M. MacDonald: "The symphonies of Havergal Brian. Volume 2: Symphonies 13-29". Kahn and Averill, London (1978), ISBN 0 900707 43 7
M. MacDonald: "The symphonies of Havergal Brian. Volume 3: Symphonies 30-22, survey and summing up". Kahn and Averill, London (1983), ISBN 0-8008-7530-3

Thanks a lot, Roehr.

[EdgeleyRob]

Roehre (post #87).

Fascinating subject this.

Silly question time,are KV (köchel verzeichnis) and K numbers one and the same ?

[french frank]

Silly question time,are KV (köchel verzeichnis) and K numbers one and the same ?

Yes.

[EdgeleyRob]

Thanks ff