Musical questions and answers thread

[ferneyhoughgeliebte]

Why did Herbert von Karajan never record or perform the Sibelius Symphony No 3? It is no lesser a work than any of the others yet, given Karajan's enormous affinity with Sibelius and the fact that he set down the other symphonies more than once, it is puzzling that he never recorded the 3rd. Is he on record (no pun intended) as saying anything about it? Did he have an expressed antipathy to it or did he just never get round to it?

EMI wanted him to record it with them (his only recording of the First was the one he made in the '80s with them), and he wasn't exactly against the idea, but Karajan never renewed his contract with them after 1985 and he doesn't seem to have raised the possibility with DG. There was a recording of Carmina Burana chalked in for an unspecified recording date, but ...

[pastoralguy]

Time for a fresh question.

Why did Herbert von Karajan never record or perform the Sibelius Symphony No 3? It is no lesser a work than any of the others yet, given Karajan's enormous affinity with Sibelius and the fact that he set down the other symphonies more than once, it is puzzling that he never recorded the 3rd. Is he on record (no pun intended) as saying anything about it? Did he have an expressed antipathy to it or did he just never get round to it?

At the risk of sounding facetious, it's possible that the fact the Berlin Philharmonic didn't have the orchestral parts in their library slowed down HvK's plans. I know that when Sir Simon first played the third symphony the Orchestra they had to obtain the parts. Sibelius has never been a popular composer in Germany so it's possible that there was no 'mechanism' for getting the music easily.

[Petrushka]

EMI wanted him to record it with them (his only recording of the First was the one he made in the '80s with them), and he wasn't exactly against the idea, but Karajan never renewed his contract with them after 1985 and he doesn't seem to have raised the possibility with DG. There was a recording of Carmina Burana chalked in for an unspecified recording date, but ...

Many thanks for this answer. It's what Bertie Wooster would have called a 'concatenation of circumstances'. By 1985 Karajan's relationship with the Berliners was beginning to turn sour so this may have been a factor. Such a pity. Just one half hour symphony that Karajan and the BPO would doubtless have recorded in a single take!

[EdgeleyRob]

It's quite something, isn't it?! To me, it's one of the more obviously telling illustrations of the regard in which he held Chopin; in more general terms, what strikes me as one of the most remarkable aspects of the pianistic triumvirate that was Chopin, Liszt and Alkan is how very different from one another their works are - much mutual admiration between the three but never at the expense of the individuality of matter or manner of any one of them.

Thanks again AH.

[ferneyhoughgeliebte]

At the risk of sounding facetious, it's possible that the fact the Berlin Philharmonic didn't have the orchestral parts in their library slowed down HvK's plans. I know that when Sir Simon first played the third symphony the Orchestra they had to obtain the parts. Sibelius has never been a popular composer in Germany so it's possible that there was no 'mechanism' for getting the music easily.

Possibly - but this would then have also been the case with the Sibelius Symphonies HvK did record with the Berliners for EMI in the late '70s (Nos 1 - his only recording of the work -,2,4,5 & 6, plus Tapiola and his only recording of En Saga). And Karajan was "KARAJAN": if he'd really wanted to do a work, the publishers would've got the materials to him by chartered aircraft if necessary!

[Alison]

Does The term Allegro refer primarily to speed or mood ?

[pastoralguy]

Possibly - but this would then have also been the case with the Sibelius Symphonies HvK did record with the Berliners for EMI in the late '70s (Nos 1 - his only recording of the work -,2,4,5 & 6, plus Tapiola and his only recording of En Saga). And Karajan was "KARAJAN": if he'd really wanted to do a work, the publishers would've got the materials to him by chartered aircraft if necessary!

According to an article by Richard Osbourne in the Gramophone in 2008, Karajan wanted to record Shostakovich 8 but EMI reckoned it wouldn't be economically viable. Perhaps they felt the same about Sibelius three.

[Petrushka]

According to an article by Richard Osbourne in the Gramophone in 2008, Karajan wanted to record Shostakovich 8 but EMI reckoned it wouldn't be economically viable. Perhaps they felt the same about Sibelius three.

If this is true then one can only weep with despair.

[EdgeleyRob]

Does The term Allegro refer primarily to speed or mood ?

In the olden days (well before your time Alison )the Allegro was a car,so speed.

[cloughie]

In the olden days (well before your time Alison )the Allegro was a car,so speed.

Their nickname was Aggro so it was probably mood!

[Roehre]

Does The term Allegro refer primarily to speed or mood ?

Apart from dodgy British made cars, it's a tempo-indication.
As an example it's nice to hear the differences in mood in the first mvts of Mozart's symphonies no.31 KV297 and no.33 319, both marked Allegro assai, or -alternatively- no.32 KV318 and (Posthorn-symphony), KV320a both marked allegro con spirito (the latter being the exact double speed of its preceding Introduction Adagio maestoso, btw)

[MrGongGong]

(from the Jazz wars thread courtesy of mr Oxo)

Why do Jazzers refer to musicians by their Christian names ?

[teamsaint]

(from the Jazz wars thread courtesy of mr Oxo)

Why do Jazzers refer to musicians by their Christian names ?

Supplementary:
Why do composers (and others ) not always (or often) get the courtesy of their First name, or a title. ?

[MrGongGong]

Supplementary:
Why do composers (and others ) not always (or often) get the courtesy of their First name, or a title. ?

Lets see what "Barrett" has to say about that

[ahinton]

Lets see what "Barrett" has to say about that

...and while we wait for that, there are, of course, exceptions such as "Berkeley"...