Musical questions and answers thread

[Eine Alpensinfonie]

The first five bars are in the Mother's aria (Hadst thou a son) in Elgar's oratorio 'The Light of Life'.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qivGv_TbaKY

[kernelbogey]

Despina's disguised characters often sing this way

Yes - Despina a better example.

[smittims]

I'm trying to identify the conductor on Dennis Brain's first recording of Mozart's fourth horn concerto (K 495) with the Halle orchestra.

On its first issue the 'Record Guide' said the name of the conductor had been 'reprehensibly' omitted, and so it was on the 10" Columbia LP, on which it was coupled with Brain's first recording of the second concerto with the Philharmonia orchestra and Walter Susskind.

I thought it may heve been discovered and printed in the notes to one of the numerous CD reissues of this recording (e.g.the 'Icon' box). Can anyone help?

[subcontrabass]

I'm trying to identify the conductor on Dennis Brain's first recording of Mozart's fourth horn concerto (K 495) with the Halle orchestra.

On its first issue the 'Record Guide' said the name of the conductor had been 'reprehensibly' omitted, and so it was on the 10" Columbia LP, on which it was coupled with Brain's first recording of the second concerto with the Philharmonia orchestra and Walter Susskind.

I thought it may heve been discovered and printed in the notes to one of the numerous CD reissues of this recording (e.g.the 'Icon' box). Can anyone help?

The listing for the CD re-issue ( https://www.amazon.com/Centenary-100.../dp/B08XFJ8XMP ) appears to give Malcolm Sargent conducting the first two movements and Laurance Turner conducting the third movement.

[Bryn]

The listing for the CD re-issue ( https://www.amazon.com/Centenary-100.../dp/B08XFJ8XMP ) appears to give Malcolm Sargent conducting the first two movements and Laurance Turner conducting the third movement.

Presto also cites those two conductors, but without making clear who conducted which movement(s). First movement cadenza by Norman del Mar.

QOBUZ concurs with Sargent 1 & 2 and Turner 3.

[smittims]

Many thanks. What an intriguing story. Another source says Sargent 1 and Turner 2&3! Laurance Turner was at that time the leader of the Halle, so presumably he stood in for Sargent's 'No Show' . And I suppose EMI were embarrased to list the two conductors, so they 'bottled out'.

[Bryn]

Last night's TtN featured Prokofiev's 2nd Violin Sonata which I had always understood to have been an arrangement by the composer himself of his Flute Sonata However the online listing claims the arrangement was by David Oistrakh. Is this just another case of bogus attribution by the Beb's schedule compilers or have the musical historians got it wrong until now?

Ah, it appears that Prokofiev has assistance from Oistrakh in making his transcription of the Flute sonata for violin and piano. Presumably, they were both in Perm at the time. That's where Prokofiev is cited as being while making the arrangement.

[Pulcinella]

Last night's TtN featured Prokofiev's 2nd Violin Sonata which I had always understood to have been an arrangement by the composer himself of his Flute Sonata However the online listing claims the arrangement was by David Oistrakh. Is this just another case of bogus attribution by the Beb's schedule compilers or have the musical historians got it wrong until now?

Ah, it appears that Prokofiev has assistance from Oistrakh in making his transcription of the Flute sonata for violin and piano. Presumably, they were both in Perm at the time. That's where Prokofiev is cited as being while making the arrangement.

If you have the BBC MM CD recording (Vol 18, No 3), with James Ehnes and Andrew Armstrong (coupled with a 1936 Archive recording of VC2 with Soetens, BBCSO, and Wood), then there is a pretty good set of liner notes, written by David Nice, by the looks of it.

[Mandryka]

What is Moment Form? Is Messiaen’s catalogue d’oiseaux an example? Debussy’s Jeux? Someone suggested Stravinsky’s Symphonies for Winds is an example too.

The reason I ask is that when I try to investigate it, I keep coming across the idea that it was “invented” by Stockhausen. Yet when I look at the definitions, I think I can find much earlier examples.

[Mandryka]

. . . and another one while I’m here.

What is Smooth Time? As opposed to Striated Time? Is it just music without an audible pulse? So, for example, something in Smooth Time would be . . . Fragmente Stille, an Diotima maybe.

[RichardB]

What is Moment Form?

A useful reference here is Jonathan D Kramer, "Moment Form in Twentieth-Century Music". (The Musical Quarterly, vol.64, no.2 (April 1978), pp. 177-194. Kramer traces the origins of the idea formalised by Stockhausen through Debussy (especially Jeux), Stravinsky (especially the Symphonies of Wind Instruments), Webern and Messiaen. What makes moment form itself different from its antecedents is that it makes explicit the implication that if each "moment" is an independent "now", it shouldn't matter which order the moments constituting a composition are played in, or, in the absence of an actual "mobile form", it should seem not to matter. Stravinsky in his Symphonies attempts to disguise this sense of timelessness by adding a chorale at the end to bring things to a conclusion, while Stockhausen embraces it more fully, so that in his most thoroughly moment-form works, like Momente itself, the beginning and ending of the music are not signalled as such but are (ideally) perceived as an eternal play of permutations from which we hear a particular excerpt that could begin and end at any point. So, while of course there's an ancestry to Stockhausen's idea (like there is to any other idea), encapsulating it in the way that he did could give rise to some innovative and fruitful ways of thinking about structure and time in musical composition. From that "zero point" it was then possible for Stockhausen and others to reincorporate elements of more "developmental" musical thinking from, as it were, first principles.

[Mandryka]

Thanks Richard, I’ll try to find Kramer’s paper.

[Eine Alpensinfonie]

. . . and another one while I’m here.

What is Smooth Time? As opposed to Striated Time? Is it just music without an audible pulse? So, for example, something in Smooth Time would be . . . Fragmente Stille, an Diotima maybe.

I’ve never heard of that one. It sounds like the name of a programme that might be broadcast in the early hours of Saturday morning.

[Pulcinella]

I’ve never heard of that one. It sounds like the name of a programme that might be broadcast in the early hours of Saturday morning.

[Bryn]

. . . and another one while I’m here.

What is Smooth Time? As opposed to Striated Time? Is it just music without an audible pulse? So, for example, something in Smooth Time would be . . . Fragmente Stille, an Diotima maybe.

A new term for me: https://www.jstor.org/stable/26563364