Originally posted by Dave2002
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Musical questions and answers thread
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Originally posted by Joseph K View PostOn the other hand, and this might back-up Dave's point, intervals are more easily visualised on the guitar fretboard than they are, IMO, on the piano. It's for this reason that transposing to what other instrumentalists would consider an obscure key can be easy on the guitar since it might just involve shifting things up a fret.
Also, not every mode avoids the pesky black keys - I thought we'd established that earlier?
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Originally posted by Serial_Apologist View PostJazz musicians everywhere Dave, not just in the US. In many countries outwith "the diaspora" modal jazz meshed with their own modally-based folk traditions, including ours - which is part of an explanation for how come some of our best-known jazz musicians manage to write materials and use improvising "vernaculars" that simultaneously reflect influences from American jazz, flowing from that key Miles Davis recording "A Kind of Blue" of 1959 and from the turn of the 20th century "English pastoral school". This is a bigger question than belongs in this thread, but composers 50 or 60 years apart on two sides of the Atlantic arrived at similar understandings regarding how to harmonise modally. And that went for rock musicians too, one only has to bring The Animals' "House of the Rising Sun" to hear those Vaughan Williamsy harmonic progressions replicated - though I doubt whether that would have been its selling point at the time! And later Pink Floyd would be full of those same quasi-parallel harmonic shifts that fall so naturally under guitarists' fingers. The influences of Debussy and Ravel can't be overlooked, either, whether as regards American jazz post 1955 (both Evanses, Bill and Gil, spoke frequently of being influenced by French Impressionism) or its British cousin. In a way these things helped "legitimize" developments in jazz outside America, as has been pointed out.
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I was thinking over some of the comments about modes when I remembered two things - Thomas Hardy's small collection of the songs he heard around him as a boy – Country Songs of 1820 onward: killed by the Comic Songs of the Music Hall. In later life he remembered a harvest supper he had attended as a 7-year-old :
… among the last at which the old traditional ballads were sung, the railway having been extended to Dorchester just then, and the orally transmitted ditties of centuries being slain at a stroke by the London comic songs that were introduced.
Then there's A. L. Lloyd's comment in the introduction to The Penguin Book of English Folk-Song, in which he recalled:
An old Suffolk labourer with a fine folk-song repertory and a delicate, rather gnat-like, voice, [who] once remarked, “I used to be reckoned a good singer until these-here tunes came in.”
Both seem to consider the folk songs to be "natural" and contrasted with the "music hall" or "these tunes".
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Originally posted by Pabmusic View PostI was thinking over some of the comments about modes when I remembered two things - Thomas Hardy's small collection of the songs he heard around him as a boy – Country Songs of 1820 onward: killed by the Comic Songs of the Music Hall. In later life he remembered a harvest supper he had attended as a 7-year-old :
… among the last at which the old traditional ballads were sung, the railway having been extended to Dorchester just then, and the orally transmitted ditties of centuries being slain at a stroke by the London comic songs that were introduced.
Then there's A. L. Lloyd's comment in the introduction to The Penguin Book of English Folk-Song, in which he recalled:
An old Suffolk labourer with a fine folk-song repertory and a delicate, rather gnat-like, voice, [who] once remarked, “I used to be reckoned a good singer until these-here tunes came in.”
Both seem to consider the folk songs to be "natural" and contrasted with the "music hall" or "these tunes".
(I assume it's the same book. Mine is from Paladin and title is Folk Song in England,)
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Originally posted by Pabmusic View PostI was thinking over some of the comments about modes when I remembered two things - Thomas Hardy's small collection of the songs he heard around him as a boy – Country Songs of 1820 onward: killed by the Comic Songs of the Music Hall. In later life he remembered a harvest supper he had attended as a 7-year-old :
… among the last at which the old traditional ballads were sung, the railway having been extended to Dorchester just then, and the orally transmitted ditties of centuries being slain at a stroke by the London comic songs that were introduced.
Then there's A. L. Lloyd's comment in the introduction to The Penguin Book of English Folk-Song, in which he recalled:
An old Suffolk labourer with a fine folk-song repertory and a delicate, rather gnat-like, voice, [who] once remarked, “I used to be reckoned a good singer until these-here tunes came in.”
Both seem to consider the folk songs to be "natural" and contrasted with the "music hall" or "these tunes".
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Originally posted by gurnemanz View Post... (I assume it's the same book. Mine is from Paladin and title is Folk Song in England,)
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Originally posted by Pabmusic View PostActually, no. I was quoting from the intro to the Penguin Book of English Folk-Song, from 1959, by RVW & Lloyd. But you are right about Lloyd's magnum opus - which sits on a shelf behind me even now (the Paladin book that I bought in about 1972).
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Originally posted by Joseph K View PostBumped for Pulcinella.
A notation question that I hope has a simple solution.
I've been sent a draft of part of a commission, and one bar struck me as rather oddly notated.
We're in 4/4, but there are 6 crotchets, divided into two sets of triplets (correctly configured with the appropriate 3s in the square braces, if that's the right word, over each set).
The problem is the underlay of the words, which in this case are 'live in one another'.
The triplet layout suggests a stress (even if slight) so that it becomes live in one a-no-ther, whereas it should surely be live in one a-no-ther.
So ideally should there be three sets of duplets (marked how, just slurred?) and an overall 6 in a square brace?
The composer has suggested using tenuto markings on the stressed syllables.
Thanks in advance.
(I hope that our commissioned composer is not on the forum, or if he is that he doesn't take this query as a criticism!)
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Originally posted by Pulcinella View Post
A notation question that I hope has a simple solution.
I've been sent a draft of part of a commission, and one bar struck me as rather oddly notated.
We're in 4/4, but there are 6 crotchets, divided into two sets of triplets (correctly configured with the appropriate 3s in the square braces, if that's the right word, over each set).
The problem is the underlay of the words, which in this case are 'live in one another'.
The triplet layout suggests a stress (even if slight) so that it becomes live in one a-no-ther, whereas it should surely be live in one a-no-ther.
So ideally should there be three sets of duplets (marked how, just slurred?) and an overall 6 in a square brace?
The composer has suggested used tenuto markings on the stressed syllables.
Thanks in advance.
(I hope that our commissioned composer is not on the forum, or if he is that he doesn't take this query as a criticism!)
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Originally posted by Pulcinella View PostSo ideally should there be three sets of duplets (marked how, just slurred?) and an overall 6 in a square brace?
In other words there might not be a simple solution! - but the problem isn't so difficult that it can't be quickly solved in rehearsal.
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Originally posted by RichardB View Postleave it as it is - English speakers will in any case "correct" the stress without even thinking about it
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