Musical questions and answers thread

[Ein Heldenleben]

One question I'd like to have the answer to:

Why, when I can play Chopin Études, Late Beethoven Sonatas and Rachmaninov preludes, can I not play The Entertainer?

The two hands refuse to work together.

This has cheered me up - I can't play all the Chopin Etudes (I can stumble through a few) Ditto late Beethoven and Rach Preludes but I can play the Entertainer - with a slight problem with the R.H Octaves with filled in thirds- that doesn't lie under the hands well. However I would gladly trade this minor facility for your exceptional prowess. What exactly is the problem though? The left hand is a steady quaver beat with the odd syncopation in the right hand - I would have thought compared to Hammerklavier final movt a walk in the park....

[Mario]

Four / four time & Common time

Apologies if this has been covered elsewhere.

Currently around Grade 5 in music theory, I’m still unclear about the difference between 4/4 and C (Common time). While both have four crotchets per bar, are they only different in terms of pulse, or accents, or emphasis, and always dependent on the music?

If I were a composer (which I’m not), what would make me write the music in one form rather than the other?

And then there’s the further complication of, what’s a C with a vertical line through it - Cut time? I believe this is a beat of minims, i.e. two in a bar. I know that 4/4 and C are quadruple meters, and Cut time is duple, but beyond that…?

Mario

[Pulcinella]

Mario

This might help:

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alla_breve

By the way, and there's no need to apologise for not knowing about it, we have this thread

http://www.for3.org/forums/showthread.php?10169-Musical-questions-and-answers-thread

for asking Musical questions, and you'll usually find lots of people happy to answer!
A friendly host might even move this thread there.

[Mario]

Mario

This might help:

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alla_breve

By the way, and there's no need to apologise for not knowing about it, we have this thread

http://www.for3.org/forums/showthread.php?10169-Musical-questions-and-answers-thread

for asking Musical questions, and you'll usually find lots of people happy to answer!
A friendly host might even move this thread there.

Thanks again P! I suspected there might be a thread already in existence. I've written to the Mods to move this thread. Also, thanks for the link.

Mario

[Moved - ff]

[Bryn]

Apologies if this has been covered elsewhere.

Currently around Grade 5 in music theory, I’m still unclear about the difference between 4/4 and C (Common time). While both have four crotchets per bar, are they only different in terms of pulse, or accents, or emphasis, and always dependent on the music?

If I were a composer (which I’m not), what would make me write the music in one form rather than the other?

And then there’s the further complication of, what’s a C with a vertical line through it - Cut time? I believe this is a beat of minims, i.e. two in a bar. I know that 4/4 and C are quadruple meters, and Cut time is duple, but beyond that…?

Mario

On "cut time" (alla breve), this is one of my favourite references:

The new critical edition of the concerto, edited by Jonathan del Mar, restores the alla breve time signature. Very few pianists as yet observe the alla breve. The closest on disc is probably Melvyn Tann, with the LCP and Roger Norrington. They also take their lead from Czerny's metronome marks for the work.

[Mario]

On "cut time" (alla breve), this is one of my favourite references:

And is now mine too Bryn! Thanks,

Mario

[Eine Alpensinfonie]

I’m still unclear about the difference between 4/4 and C (Common time)...
And then there’s the further complication of, what’s a C with a vertical line through it - Cut time? I believe this is a beat of minims, i.e. two in a bar. I know that 4/4 and C are quadruple meters, and o

Common time (C) = 4/4
Split common time = 2/2

[Pabmusic]

Apologies if this has been covered elsewhere.

... If I were a composer (which I’m not), what would make me write the music in one form rather than the other? ...

Mario

Given that we live in the 21st century, I'd say there's no advantage in one over the other. I'm sure that was the case for the entire 20th century too. You'd probably have to go to the early 19th century before you'd come across a noticeable difference in the way they'd be used, and then only to distinguish quicker music (longer notes) from slower.

Today you just use what you're comfortable with.

[Mario]

Today you just use what you're comfortable with.

In a nutshell, this is what I wanted to know.

Going through all my studies (I'm about to embark on Grade 6, whose syllabus looks a little foreboding), there was no clear cut answer such as yours.

Apart from saving time reading all those semiquavers and demisemiquavers, I didn't really see much difference.

So Pabmusic, I owe you one! Thank you,

Mario

[Eine Alpensinfonie]

The second beat is played slightly early. That's just how all Austrian musicians (and not just them) know that waltzes are played. Of course it has to be learned, but it's no more telepathic than jazz musicians knowing how to swing or Japanese gagaku musicians knowing how to speed up gradually over the course of a piece. None of this is any more difficult than playing equal beats!

Listening to recordings of Viennese concerts, the anticipation of the second beat seems to have become more prominent in recent years.

[Dave2002]

Modes - current conventions?

Modes - many of us have heard of modes, and are aware that some composers, such as VW had tendencies to use modal forms. Now I see that some jazz and popular musicians are also talking (occasionally at least) about modes.

Clearly modes as they are now, are somewhat different from what they were in medieval times, or even in some periods much closer to our own.

What I want to know is whether they are generally now considered as absolute, or whether they are relative to a key or tonic centre.

What I mean here is if we take an accepted pattern of modes - Ionian, Dorian, Phrygian, Mixolydian, Aeolian and Locrian, are these always related to a tonic on C (or approximately there - allowing for tuning variations), or does it make sense to talk about E:Ionian or E: Phrygian, for example - which would have the notes E - Fsharp - Gsharp - A - B - Csharp and Dsharp and then G sharp - A - B - Csharp - D sharp - Gsharp - F sharp - Gsharp respectively?

[Joseph K]

What I mean here is if we take an accepted pattern of modes - Ionian, Dorian, Phrygian, Mixolydian, Aeolian and Locrian, are these always related to a tonic on C (or approximately there - allowing for tuning variations), or does it make sense to talk about E:Ionian or E: Phrygian, for example - which would have the notes E - Fsharp - Gsharp - A - B - Csharp and Dsharp and then G sharp - A - B - Csharp - D sharp - Gsharp - F sharp - Gsharp respectively?

The latter these days.

[Richard Barrett]

The latter these days.

Some members may have heard of a useful site called "Wikipedia" which contains much handy information on many subjects including music theory: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mode_(music)

[Dave2002]

Some members may have heard of a useful site called "Wikipedia" which contains much handy information on many subjects including music theory: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mode_(music)

Indeed, though I don't think that quite answers the question posed in a completely unambiguous way.

The ambiguity still exists from other sources - such as this https://www.britannica.com/art/Locrian-mode and one can obfuscate further by digging into pages such as this - https://www.britannica.com/art/church-mode

Maybe hardly anybody talks about these things anyway - or uses them - so the answer to the question is really not needed - but I wasn't sure.

Do you use them, or talk about them?

Then of course there is this - https://leonardbernstein.com/lecture...what-is-a-mode

and maybe - a completely different form of mode - https://medical-dictionary.thefreedi...on%20frequency.

or this one - https://www.bing.com/images/search?v...RST&ajaxhist=0

[Bryn]

Some members may have heard of a useful site called "Wikipedia" which contains much handy information on many subjects including music theory: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mode_(music)

Unfortunately, Wikipedia is not an entirely reliable source. In this case, it seems fair enough but how is someone new to the subject to know this? That said, an Internet search on the question offers plenty of reliably supported relevant information, to be sure, as do any number of readily available music reference books. Charity shops often have them at very low cost.