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  • Pulcinella
    Host
    • Feb 2014
    • 10895

    Originally posted by ferneyhoughgeliebte View Post
    0, 2, 5 refers to the number of semitones between the notes of a chord and the chord's root - so an example here would be C, D, and F: C is the root, there are no semitones because it doesn't have an interval with itself (other than a Unison, which is 0 semitones away from itself). D is 2 semitones away from C, and F is 5 semitones away from C.

    Transpose C D F down a minor third, and you get A B D;
    Transpose C D F up a minor third, and you get Eb F Ab

    Invert C D F, and you get C Bb G (0, 2, 5 semitones going downwards from the "root")

    Transpose C Bb G up a tritone and you get F# E C#

    The emboldened trichords are the ones you mention (without the octave fixing) you quote from Whittall.
    Thanks to you, too.

    Comment

    • Joseph K
      Banned
      • Oct 2017
      • 7765

      Originally posted by Pulcinella View Post

      Ah! Thanks.
      And surely then the second and fourth are inversions: coming down rather than going up?
      But their intervallic content seems to be a minor third and major second...

      Comment

      • ferneyhoughgeliebte
        Gone fishin'
        • Sep 2011
        • 30163

        Originally posted by Joseph K View Post
        … so I get the first and third ones. But not the second and fourth. Perhaps I should look at one of my texts on post-tonal theory...
        Originally posted by Pulcinella View Post
        And surely then the second and fourth are inversions: coming down rather than going up?
        - in the time it took me to post, you'd sorted it out between you.
        [FONT=Comic Sans MS][I][B]Numquam Satis![/B][/I][/FONT]

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        • Joseph K
          Banned
          • Oct 2017
          • 7765

          Oh I see, inversions, yes.

          Comment

          • ferneyhoughgeliebte
            Gone fishin'
            • Sep 2011
            • 30163

            Originally posted by Joseph K View Post
            But their intervallic content seems to be a minor third and major second...
            Yes - it is in the ascending trichords, too: C-D, and D-F. (The numbers refer to the distance from the "root", not the note immediately above/below.)
            [FONT=Comic Sans MS][I][B]Numquam Satis![/B][/I][/FONT]

            Comment

            • Joseph K
              Banned
              • Oct 2017
              • 7765

              Originally posted by ferneyhoughgeliebte View Post
              Yes - it is in the ascending trichords, too: C-D, and D-F. (The numbers refer to the distance from the "root", not the note immediately above/below.)

              Comment

              • Joseph K
                Banned
                • Oct 2017
                • 7765

                Comment

                • Pulcinella
                  Host
                  • Feb 2014
                  • 10895

                  Originally posted by Joseph K View Post
                  Don't feel bad, Joseph!
                  You were at least one step ahead of me.

                  Comment

                  • Serial_Apologist
                    Full Member
                    • Dec 2010
                    • 37606

                    Originally posted by ferneyhoughgeliebte View Post
                    there are no semitones because it doesn't have an interval with itself (other than a Unison, which is 0 semitones away from itself).


                    Isn't language just wonderful???

                    Comment

                    • ferneyhoughgeliebte
                      Gone fishin'
                      • Sep 2011
                      • 30163

                      [FONT=Comic Sans MS][I][B]Numquam Satis![/B][/I][/FONT]

                      Comment

                      • Pulcinella
                        Host
                        • Feb 2014
                        • 10895

                        Another plea for enlightenment.
                        In the Poulenc mass that the choir I'm in is currently learning, there is an instruction to the tenors for one bar (two bars before figure 8) to sing clair, with the following bar marked naturel.
                        Does clair really just mean 'clear'?

                        I could have sworn that I had seen the instruction en clair associated with the horns in The Rite of Spring, but a quick skim through the score didn't reveal it.

                        All thoughts/comments welcome.

                        Comment

                        • ahinton
                          Full Member
                          • Nov 2010
                          • 16122

                          Originally posted by Pulcinella View Post
                          I could have sworn that I had seen the instruction en clair associated with the horns in The Rite of Spring, but a quick skim through the score didn't reveal it.
                          I can't seem to find my score of Le Sacre at the moment but, from memory, isn't that instruction pavillons en l'air?

                          P.S. Found it now. It is indeed pavillons en l'air (or "bells up" in horn players' slang, I guess) and appears for the first time in the bar before fig 46 on p.41 in the Ritual of abduction movement.
                          Last edited by ahinton; 17-05-19, 13:58.

                          Comment

                          • Pulcinella
                            Host
                            • Feb 2014
                            • 10895

                            Originally posted by ahinton View Post
                            I can't seem to find my score of Le Sacre at the moment but, from memory, isn't that instruction pavillons en l'air?
                            Yes, I noticed that, and wondered if my memory was playing tricks.
                            It probably was.


                            It's a little trumpet-like motif, but at least I know I'm not confusing it with en chamade!
                            Though that might be the sort of projection being asked for.

                            Comment

                            • edashtav
                              Full Member
                              • Jul 2012
                              • 3668

                              Originally posted by Pulcinella View Post
                              Another plea for enlightenment.
                              In the Poulenc mass that the choir I'm in is currently learning, there is an instruction to the tenors for one bar (two bars before figure 8) to sing clair, with the following bar marked naturel.
                              Does clair really just mean 'clear'?

                              I could have sworn that I had seen the instruction en clair associated with the horns in The Rite of Spring, but a quick skim through the score didn't reveal it.

                              All thoughts/comments welcome.
                              Dolmetsch on-line suggests:

                              clear voice, white voice, voce chiara (Italian), voce bianca (Italian), voix claire (French), voix blanche (French):
                              a clear open timbre in which the tongue retracts and blocks the pharynx

                              Comment

                              • Pulcinella
                                Host
                                • Feb 2014
                                • 10895

                                Originally posted by edashtav View Post
                                Dolmetsch on-line suggests:

                                clear voice, white voice, voce chiara (Italian), voce bianca (Italian), voix claire (French), voix blanche (French):
                                a clear open timbre in which the tongue retracts and blocks the pharynx

                                Many thanks.

                                Comment

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