Originally posted by Bryn
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Musical questions and answers thread
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Originally posted by vinteuil View Post.... I agree with Highland Dougie - "se jouer" is the standard form of what in English would be put into the passive "This piece is to be played.."
Le Petit Robert gives : SE JOUER - être joué (jeu, musique, théâtre... ) Ce jeu se joue à quatre...
And Littré has : Se jouer, être joué, en parlant d'un instrument de musique, d'un morceau de musique. Ceci se joue à quatre mains. Cet instrument se joue avec la bouche, avec les doigts.
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A "cadenza" gets its name from the fact that a florrid display of a soloists's skill usually appeared at a Cadence point - usually (I don't know of any that don't) as part of a Perfect Cadence (Dominant to Tonic): the cadenza would appear between the orchestra belting out the Dominant chord, and the reappearance of the orchestra (after the showing-off stuff) resolving the chord with the Tonic. (The First Movement of the Brahms Violin concerto, for example - the orchestra loudly goes "da da da - DAAA!" (ending on a Amajor chord) as if saying "Over to you, Yehudi", the soloist does his stuff (which can go on as long as the soloist likes, so to make clear "I've finished now", it ends on an extended trill) and then the orchestra takes over with a resolution of its previous chord (A major) on D major, the home key/"Tonic" of the work.[FONT=Comic Sans MS][I][B]Numquam Satis![/B][/I][/FONT]
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Originally posted by Stanfordian View PostDoes the music fade away/quieten ?[FONT=Comic Sans MS][I][B]Numquam Satis![/B][/I][/FONT]
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Originally posted by vinteuil View Post.
... I agree with Highland Dougie - "se jouer" is the standard form of what in English would be put into the passive "This piece is to be played.."It isn't given us to know those rare moments when people are wide open and the lightest touch can wither or heal. A moment too late and we can never reach them any more in this world.
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Originally posted by french frank View PostOne for Pedants' Paradise, but if the verb 'se jouer' has the force of a passive, it still has to have a subject ('Pour se jouer 840 fois de suite ce motif'). If 'ce motif' is the subject, the word order is very odd. It appears to be the object of 'se jouer'. I would offer the alternative meaning of 'se jouer', namely 'in order to play with ease', 'in order to make easy work of playing').
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Originally posted by ahinton View PostSorabji even has something like it (albeit in somewhat incorrect and/or idiomatic Italian) in the title of his 1946 concerto for piano solo - Concerto per suonare da me solo; when the late Yonty Solomon premièred it more than 30 years later, it must have been an unique example of a performance of a work negating its title...
Conlon Nancarrow, Study for Player Piano No. 7. Aufgenommen mit dem Ampico Bösendorfer Flügel von Jürgen Hocker, der nach den Wünschen Nancarrows restauriert...
Last edited by Lat-Literal; 19-07-18, 21:41.
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Originally posted by Lat-Literal View Post. . . As for any notions of "playing itself", especially in an area I view positively, albeit a view that is not universally shared, I'd probably be contemplating Nancarrow - for someone has to!
Conlon Nancarrow, Study for Player Piano No. 7. Aufgenommen mit dem Ampico Bösendorfer Flügel von Jürgen Hocker, der nach den Wünschen Nancarrows restauriert...
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Originally posted by Bryn View PostJuergen Hocker's yer man when it comes to high definition Nancarrow. Those Bösendorfer and Fischer set-ups he has are something else. Very well worth investigating, along with the Other Minds CD set, et al.
I found the Nancarrow discs very expensive and went for Metzmacher because I was able to get a cheap copy but I had my doubts and was also too uninformed to decide very clearly. It was at the time a case of having at least something from all the composers who appealed to me while being on a limited budget. Cost is quite symptomatic of the "avant-garde" and less popular composers generally. That on occasions led to dilemmas as it was my main leaning. To the less popular. While conventional ish, I paid huge as a one off for Tailleferre and Cras.
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Originally posted by Lat-Literal View PostThank you Bryn.
I found the Nancarrow discs very expensive and went for Metzmacher because I was able to get a cheap copy but I had my doubts and was also too uninformed to decide very clearly. It was at the time a case of having at least something from all the composers who appealed to me while being on a limited budget. Cost is quite symptomatic of the "avant-garde" and less popular composers generally. That on occasions led to dilemmas as it was my main leaning. To the less popular. While conventional ish, I paid huge as a one off for Tailleferre and Cras.
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Originally posted by Bryn View PostYou might find https://www.otherminds.org/nancarrow-at-100/ of interest. I participated in the crowd-funding, so have mp3s (only 160kbps, unfortunately) of the whole proceedings. The Rex Lawson perfromance of the player-piano transcription of Stravinsky's The Rite of Spring is stunning.
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Originally posted by french frank View PostOne for Pedants' Paradise, but if the verb 'se jouer' has the force of a passive, it still has to have a subject ('Pour se jouer 840 fois de suite ce motif'). If 'ce motif' is the subject, the word order is very odd. It appears to be the object of 'se jouer'. I would offer the alternative meaning of 'se jouer', namely 'in order to play with ease', 'in order to make easy work of playing').
"Se jouer... faire quelque chose en se jouant, faire quelque chose en s'amusant, sans effort. / Dans le style élevé, se jouer se dit de choses auxquelles on attribue une sorte de dessein de se divertir... "
Whether Vexations can ever be performed sans effort ...
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Originally posted by ferneyhoughgeliebte View PostIt doesn't have to - there are plenty of cadence points which have a crescendo, either to "swell" into the next phrase, or to make a "big climax" at the end.
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Boulez - 'cummings ist der Dichter'
I would like to obtain the English texts to Pierre Boulez's work 'cummings ist der Dichter' for 16 solo voices or mixed choir and instruments, a setting of verse by American poet E.E. Cummins.
I will be grateful if anyone can please share them with me or point me in the right direction. I have a recording of the work conducted by Boulez on Erato/Apex but there are no texts included.
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