Tchaikovsky - time to rehabilitate?

[BBMmk2]

But Bbm, I would say more like a saxophone - but for me that is part of its charm - I think its something to do with the bore of the tubes. The French sound is similar in the 50s recordings from the PCO eg Solti's Tchaik 5.

Yes, your right there. A saxophone. Me no likey!!

[ferneyhoughgeliebte]

But Bbm, I would say more like a saxophone - but for me that is part of its charm - I think its something to do with the bore of the tubes. The French sound is similar in the 50s recordings from the PCO eg Solti's Tchaik 5.

- I adore the timbre of that Franco-Russian brass sound.

[richardfinegold]

- I adore the timbre of that Franco-Russian brass sound.

I hate it. Also not a fan of Soviet era blatty brass. Apparently the Russians themselves weren't to fond of it either, judging by the fact that once the wall came down and they were allowed to buy new instruments, they now sound like the rest of the world

[Eine Alpensinfonie]

I hate it. Also not a fan of Soviet era blatty brass. Apparently the Russians themselves weren't to fond of it either, judging by the fact that once the wall came down and they were allowed to buy new instruments, they now sound like the rest of the world

Moi aussi. The other former Warsaw Pact countries have adapted too.

[Eine Alpensinfonie]

Even the Olso Phil horn, in the much lauded Jansons version of Tchaik 5, has a wobble on the longer notes, despite the Gramophone reviewer saying otherwise.

[BBMmk2]

Even the Olso Phil horn, in the much lauded Jansons version of Tchaik 5, has a wobble on the longer notes, despite the Gramophone reviewer saying otherwise.

I'll have to have a listen to that EA!

[ferneyhoughgeliebte]

I hate it.

I think you've mentioned this before

Also not a fan of Soviet era blatty brass. Apparently the Russians themselves weren't to fond of it either, judging by the fact that once the wall came down and they were allowed to buy new instruments, they now sound like the rest of the world

Yeh - homogenised and dull. Not so much that they were "allowed to buy new instruments" as that they actually could replace the old ones - and the only ones available were the standardised Western instruments. Fast food culture - everything has to be exactly the same the world over.

[Richard Barrett]

Yeh - homogenised and dull. Not so much that they were "allowed to buy new instruments" as that they actually could replace the old ones - and the only ones available were the standardised Western instruments. Fast food culture - everything has to be exactly the same the world over.

Completely. Those Mravinsky recordings are the sound of Tchaikovsky as far as I'm concerned. Too often his music is made to sound like confectionery. (Although of course some of it really is!)

[visualnickmos]

Do the 'old' Svetlanov recordings (Melodiya) have the same 'Moskvitch & Lada' brass as well?

[Richard Barrett]

the same 'Moskvitch & Lada' brass

You mean Stolichnaya and caviar I presume.

[Eine Alpensinfonie]

It's hilarious that some people who condemn string vibrato in 19th century music, actually think it's great when the French horn players use it.

[ferneyhoughgeliebte]

It's hilarious that some people who condemn string vibrato in 19th century music, actually think it's great when the French horn players use it.

Has anyone actually done this, Alpie - or is this a request?

[Richard Barrett]

Has anyone actually done this, Alpie - or is this a request?

But seriously, I'll tell you what I think about horn (and clarinet) vibrato, which is completely consistent with what I think about string vibrato, namely that there is no one way to do it and any kind of quasi-industrial standardisation of instrumental technique is a loss to music. Horn players in eastern European orchestras used to play with vibrato, and now they play just like everyone else. Pianos all used to sound different and now they all sound more or less the same (although Maestro Barenboim is bucking this trend with his approval of a new model). A hundred years ago different orchestras' string sections would have different approaches to vibrato. Now they all do it all the time. No wonder so many orchestras are in trouble these days, many of them just sound like inferior versions of the ones people have on CD, instead of having their own character.

[Conchis]

Orchestral musicians of my acquaintance don't think much of him - I know one who said he'd put him on a par with Sigmund Romberg!

I've always loved Tchaikovsky - he was the first 'great' composer I recognised: his music was everywhere when I was very young (I'm talking the mid-seventies, here). We used to file into assembly to the strains of the Waltz of the Flowers! I'm not sure he's (actually) any less popular today, as his music is still being programmed regularly, particularly the final three symphonies.

He was always posed a problem for Russian governments: the Soviets had a problem with his reactionary politics AND his homosexuality. Putin is probably relaxed (if not approving!) of the politics, but the sexual orientation continues to unsettle them. The official description of P.T. as 'a person without a family' is a bit ridiculous, even for a Russian government.

[cloughie]

I hate it. Also not a fan of Soviet era blatty brass. Apparently the Russians themselves weren't to fond of it either, judging by the fact that once the wall came down and they were allowed to buy new instruments, they now sound like the rest of the world

....and the French did it in the 60s when the Orchestre de Paris was fomed, adopting an international sound.